Senko not singed yet wonder if he does OTT a solid for getting him a 2nd cup and signs for 2.5-3M
- Mithos

That would be sweet.

The offer could include a promise to trade him back to Florida if Sens are not a contender at the trade deadline.

The other good part is that after the 2 years, Pinto will still be an RFA for 2 more years. So Ottawa would still control his rights.

Also for Pinto's contract is .......

$2.5 million for the coming season
$5.0 million for the 2nd year.

Which means we would have to qualify him at $5 million after that (minimum)

After all that, Pinto re-signs for 3.75.

Good deal, but I think they'll wish they'd gotten him for longer even if it cost more. Maybe Pinto refused.
- david22

Pinto want 5-6 years in the 5m. The team want to bridge him , because the cap too tight. They want to make another move

Ottawa has 3.6 million in cap space.

Buyout Hamonic .... realize $333,000 per year for 2 years ..... save around $766,000 for this season

Trade JDB .... save $805,000

Trade Forsberg ..... save $2,750,000

Total savings = including current cap space = $7,921,000

Bring up Klevin $916,000
Bring up Guenette $775,000
Bring up Crookshank $775,000
Bring up Ostapchuk $825,000
New back-up goalie $1,500,000

Total additions = 4,791,000

This still leaves Ottawa with cap space of $3,130,000
Enough for another player and some cap space for injuries. 12 forwards, 6 d-men, 2 goalies.

Maybe even keep JBD or find another multi purpose d-man .

Pinto want 5-6 years in the 5m. The team want to bridge him , because the cap too tight. They want to make another move
- Crosside

Another move? At most, Sens have maybe $2.5m. flexibility on the assumption that 2 or 3 spots are going to be filled with promotions from Belleville. Moving Hamonic might get close to $4.0m in flexibility.

It will be very impressive if Staios makes another move.

Ottawa has 3.6 million in cap space.

Buyout Hamonic .... realize $333,000 per year for 2 years ..... save around $766,000 for this season

Trade JDB .... save $805,000

Trade Forsberg ..... save $2,750,000

Total savings = including current cap space = $7,921,000

Bring up Klevin $916,000
Bring up Guenette $775,000
Bring up Crookshank $775,000
Bring up Ostapchuk $825,000
New back-up goalie $1,500,000

Total additions = 4,791,000

This still leaves Ottawa with cap space of $3,130,000
Enough for another player and some cap space for injuries. 12 forwards, 6 d-men, 2 goalies.

Maybe even keep JBD or find another multi purpose d-man .
- OttawaB

This is a pretty good breakdown. You could pump it up even more by finding a trade partner for Hamonic. But, I think trading Forsberg is high risk. Ullmark has never carried a heavy game schedule and seems to work well with sharing the workload with a partner. So, we are looking for a back up who might be called on to play 30+ games.

Like the deal a lot, in particular the term.

I would rather have him play full 2 year, then give him big deal. He had 1 n half good hockey under him. I need much more

Pinto want 5-6 years in the 5m. The team want to bridge him , because the cap too tight. They want to make another move
- Crosside

It astounds me how people choose not to be impressed by how quietly Staios has gone about reshaping the image of this team without resorting to high profile theatrical posturing. Clearly he has a vision for how he sees this team competing and I am entirely on side with him so far.

I just read that Halliday is supposed to be getting a good shot at Camp this year. 4th round pick who finished at Ohio State before joining Belleville this year at the end of the season, he had 2G and 7A in the AHL playoffs this year.

22 and 6 foot 4. I know we've been speculating about other moves, but they may want to leave one spot open for players to compete for.

apart from ullmark, his additions are not better than his substractions.
- Mithos

I beg to differ. Players that are not conducive to the team they want to build are being moved out. The math on those subtractions are pretty easy to calculate. The players brought in fit the mold they are looking for. Again, simple math.

If you think you have a better handle on who should be a part of the team than the management does, especially with a hockey mind like Martin involved, then you my friend are delusional. You have the bare amount of information available. You are making a pile of assumptions. When you assume you know things you possible cannot know, you make an ass of yourself.

It astounds me how people choose not to be impressed by how quietly Staios has gone about reshaping the image of this team without resorting to high profile theatrical posturing. Clearly he has a vision for how he sees this team competing and I am entirely on side with him so far.
- spatso

No big splashes. No swing for the fence. Perfect.

I just read that Halliday is supposed to be getting a good shot at Camp this year. 4th round pick who finished at Ohio State before joining Belleville this year at the end of the season, he had 2G and 7A in the AHL playoffs this year.

22 and 6 foot 4. I know we've been speculating about other moves, but they may want to leave one spot open for players to compete for.
- david22

Halliday could be a future 2C/3C on the team, and he's easily the C with the highest offensive upside in their system. But he's still very green, and needs offensive ice time at the pro-level. He was their most productive player in the AHL playoffs, but I'd hate to see him fester on an NHL 4th line before he's even had a year in the AHL to develop consistency as the #1C. The roster spot that I think is most open is at #4C, and it's most likely waiting for Zack Ostapchuk - who I think will eventually be a very solid two-way/checking forward.

I beg to differ. Players that are not conducive to the team they want to build are being moved out. The math on those subtractions are pretty easy to calculate. The players brought in fit the mold they are looking for. Again, simple math.

If you think you have a better handle on who should be a part of the team than the management does, especially with a hockey mind like Martin involved, then you my friend are delusional. You have the bare amount of information available. You are making a pile of assumptions. When you assume you know things you possible cannot know, you make an ass of yourself.
- HoweHatrick

I agree with you on your understanding of what is happening. This is about a team concept and changing its culture. Like you I am impressed by the efficiency and the way Staios has moved to make his changes over the past week. Folks can quibble about the individual moves but overall he has done exactly what he told us he was going to do.

On the other hand, I do not agree with your rough treatment of Mithos. He is a very astute Sens observer. His opinions are usually pretty perceptive. I understand him as saying he is not yet convinced that the changes are going to bring about a better team result. It is a different comment than folks who want to second guess every transaction. Mithos is questioning the whole of the concept and time could prove him right.

It astounds me how people choose not to be impressed by how quietly Staios has gone about reshaping the image of this team without resorting to high profile theatrical posturing. Clearly he has a vision for how he sees this team competing and I am entirely on side with him so far.
- spatso

While I understand what you are saying - but this is the NHL. Compete is everywhere. One thing that's hard to find is competitive, talent, and TIMING. The timeline of this rebuild is disorganized to say the least.

Players going forward beyond 7-8 pieces (Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto, Grieg, Batherson, Chabot, Kleven) is concerning.

Jakob Chychrun was a significant piece that is moved for a 4th D-man, who will become a bottom pairing D-men by the time the Sens compete for a cup.

Erik Brannstrom was traded for a all star captain that lifted the stanley cup. He's gone for NOTHING.

Ullmark is a great trade and add, but extension is priority! Giving a 25th pick overall was another piece.

Now it's on Norris, Chabot, and Bernard Dockers (all top 25 picks in the draft) to turn the tide in favor of a team that actually plays towards a playoff spot

While I understand what you are saying - but this is the NHL. Compete is everywhere. One thing that's hard to find is competitive, talent, and TIMING. The timeline of this rebuild is disorganized to say the least.

Players going forward beyond 7-8 pieces (Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto, Grieg, Batherson, Chabot, Kleven) is concerning.

Jakob Chychrun was a significant piece that is moved for a 4th D-man, who will become a bottom pairing D-men by the time the Sens compete for a cup.

Erik Brannstrom was traded for a all star captain that lifted the stanley cup. He's gone for NOTHING.

Ullmark is a great trade and add, but extension is priority! Giving a 25th pick overall was another piece.

Now it's on Norris, Chabot, and Bernard Dockers (all top 25 picks in the draft) to turn the tide in favor of a team that actually plays towards a playoff spot
- AlfieisKing

True story. About 20 years ago I had a friend who was a shrewd investor in traditional business stocks. He told me he had lost most of his money because he had done his analysis and bought huge quantities of stock in a specialized manufacturing company. The company manufactured telephone booths.

Some of the old trades you are talking about are best filed away with the ancient telephone booths. They are history and don't have any meaning for today or our going forward. The new ownership group and the new management team deserve to be judged on the merit of their own decisions

True story. About 20 years ago I had a friend who was a shrewd investor in traditional business stocks. He told me he had lost most of his money because he had done his analysis and bought huge quantities of stock in a specialized manufacturing company. The company manufactured telephone booths.

Some of the old trades you are talking about are best filed away with the ancient telephone booths. They are history and don't have any meaning for today or our going forward. The new ownership group and the new management team deserve to be judged on the merit of their own decisions
- spatso

I like the story but if you were investing in telephone booths 20 years ago. You were already a day late and a dollar short.

I am onboard with the movements and personally just glad to put it all behind.

but i do understand maximizing assets. If you have something of value you shouldn't be rushing to get rid of it at any cost until you recieve proper payment.

Anyway house is looking cleaner and that is always nice.
I can see the idea unfolding

On the other hand, I do not agree with your rough treatment of Mithos. He is a very astute Sens observer. His opinions are usually pretty perceptive.
- spatso

I would disagree that these opinions are "astute" by any definition of the word. These few quotes are from this and the last thread.

safe to assume Pinto is being traded, 4.4M left in cap, no one to trade to free up space
- Mithos

34 YO Jensen and a 3rd...Sens are finished, say goodbuy to Brady, Chabot, Pinto and Ullmark.
- Mithos

Brady to MTL for a 3rd and a 7th. the way staios is screwing up this has a good chance of happening
- Mithos

Staios made Dorion look like the best GM in NHL by comparison, sure dorion trading 7th for cat and 12th for chych were colossal mistakes, but the return for chych was catastrophic, the singing of Perron a poop show and amadio a smashing head on wall wtf were thinking moment.

Dorion is 3/4 on great contracts for Sanderson, Brady and Stu got Senko to sign in OTT, something staios could not even do.

you all need to start to prepare mentaly now for Brady, Chabot and Ullmark leaving in the next 365 days because that is 100% guaranteed to happen now and Stu and Sandy in the next 730 days
- Mithos

Like the deal a lot, in particular the term.

I would rather have him play full 2 year, then give him big deal. He had 1 n half good hockey under him. I need much more
- AlfieisKing

I LOVE the deal.

I’ve been crapping on Staios but the money/term make sense.

This will keep Pinto motivated to get that next pay…as well as give the Sens more time to watch and analyze his game before committing long term.

Not to mention the biggest thing: Injury history. We simply cannot have another Norris situation and take the risk signing him long term.

I LOVE the deal.

I’ve been crapping on Staios but the money/term make sense.

This will keep Pinto motivated to get that next pay…as well as give the Sens more time to watch and analyze his game before committing long term.

Not to mention the biggest thing: Injury history. We simply cannot have another Norris situation and take the risk signing him long term.
- Trilla

I have to agree - it's one thing to give out big $$$/term to your foundational core, but quite another to just start doing it for everyone. The team's foundation is clearly Tkachuk/Stutzle up front, and Sanderson/Chabot on the blue line. Nobody else should ever have been signed to more than a 2-3 year contract coming out of their ELC (e.g. Norris, White), and arguably the only player they should consider giving an extension longer than 3-4 years to is Ullmark - just because of how difficult its been to finally bring in quality goaltender who might actually be willing to re-sign.

The Pinto deal effectively sets a bridge-deal precedent by Staios, which will hopefully become standard practice for all of the next generation of young RFA, including Greig, Kleven, Ostapchuk, etc. If you look at the TBL model, bridge deals were exactly how they were able to juggle a high-end core of big-$$$/term contracts, with a steady stream of quality RFA talent. In fact, all of Kucherov ($4.7M x 3yrs), Point ($6.7M x 3yrs), Cirelli ($4.8M x 3yrs), Vasilevsky ($3.5M x 3yrs), Palat ($3.3M x 3yrs), Killorn ($2.6M x 2yrs), Cernak ($2.9M x 3yrs), and Sergachev ($4.8M x 3yrs) had very effective bridge deals prior to them either signing long-term, or being eventually traded/released.

I like the story but if you were investing in telephone booths 20 years ago. You were already a day late and a dollar short.

I am onboard with the movements and personally just glad to put it all behind.

but i do understand maximizing assets. If you have something of value you shouldn't be rushing to get rid of it at any cost until you recieve proper payment.

Anyway house is looking cleaner and that is always nice.
I can see the idea unfolding
- spazzbot

I don't know why we don't think this all the time - this is hockey and competition. We MUST maximize assets. Great teams have moved players and filled those spots right away. Sens have been bad at this historically.

The proof is right here for us man. Since 2013 (past 10 seasons) we have made the playoffs only TWO times. We haven't made the playoffs since 2017. This is nuts.

I argue the Sens were in MUCH better position 2 years ago then today. That can change if players hit their ceiling but there's just to much to bet on going right. Chabot has to stay healthy and put up 35 points and be a + player --- Norris has to stay healthy and score as someone making 9.5M.

I am also sick of people calling Jensen 33. He will be 34 when the season starts. What a disgusting trade Staios made, I would've held on to him or simply put he failed this deal

I LOVE the deal.

I’ve been crapping on Staios but the money/term make sense.

This will keep Pinto motivated to get that next pay…as well as give the Sens more time to watch and analyze his game before committing long term.

Not to mention the biggest thing: Injury history. We simply cannot have another Norris situation and take the risk signing him long term.
- Trilla

agree

I don't know why we don't think this all the time - this is hockey and competition. We MUST maximize assets. Great teams have moved players and filled those spots right away. Sens have been bad at this historically.

The proof is right here for us man. Since 2013 (past 10 seasons) we have made the playoffs only TWO times. We haven't made the playoffs since 2017. This is nuts.

I argue the Sens were in MUCH better position 2 years ago then today. That can change if players hit their ceiling but there's just to much to bet on going right. Chabot has to stay healthy and put up 35 points and be a + player --- Norris has to stay healthy and score as someone making 9.5M.

I am also sick of people calling Jensen 33. He will be 34 when the season starts. What a disgusting trade Staios made, I would've held on to him or simply put he failed this deal
- AlfieisKing

Reality can sometimes be a very painful teacher.

Sens scored 250 goals and gave up 281 on the season. They were below the league average on both the power play and on the penalty kill. At regular strength Sanderson was +8 for the season. Chabot was -3.

Chychrun was -30. Think about it.

Everyone thought Chychrun had a problem because he played on a bad Arizona team. He left and the Arizona team performance improved. The overwhelming evidence suggests that Chychrun is a huge defensive liability.

Now explain to an NHL GM why he wants to have Chychrun on his team.

Chychrun makes sense in Washington where the Caps are singularly driven by the desire for Ovechken to become the all time scoring leader. But he makes little sense anywhere else.

I don't know why we don't think this all the time - this is hockey and competition. We MUST maximize assets. Great teams have moved players and filled those spots right away. Sens have been bad at this historically.

The proof is right here for us man. Since 2013 (past 10 seasons) we have made the playoffs only TWO times. We haven't made the playoffs since 2017. This is nuts.

I argue the Sens were in MUCH better position 2 years ago then today. That can change if players hit their ceiling but there's just to much to bet on going right. Chabot has to stay healthy and put up 35 points and be a + player --- Norris has to stay healthy and score as someone making 9.5M.

I am also sick of people calling Jensen 33. He will be 34 when the season starts. What a disgusting trade Staios made, I would've held on to him or simply put he failed this deal
- AlfieisKing

I don’t like the deal, but I think I could’ve stomached it if the pick was a 1st. We gave up a top4 dman for maybe a #4. We currently have him slotted next to chabot, but that’s with the hope he’ll work beside him….it’s very possible he becomes our #5-6.

There seems to be, at least from what I could see some internal and desperate pressure to make the playoffs. I get the feeling the Brady rumors were more than just rumors. They planted a seed.

He’s a super competitive guy, and I feel he’s not the type of player that’ll wait until his deal is done..we could very well see a situation like his brother: he gave the team a shot to build a competitive team, decides to leave 1-2 seasons before his contract is up and go in a different direction.

I also believe because it worked out for Matthew it’s more than likely this scenario plays out.

With that being said, Staios needs to be better at asset management. Again, it’s his first rodeo and it’s tough being a gm especially in a cap league.

Pinto signing was great. To me it masked a bit of chychrun and Joseph’s moves for the time being. Let’s see what else he could do to round up our bottom 6/d

Reality can sometimes be a very painful teacher.

Sens scored 250 goals and gave up 281 on the season. They were below the league average on both the power play and on the penalty kill. At regular strength Sanderson was +8 for the season. Chabot was -3.

Chychrun was -30. Think about it.

Everyone thought Chychrun had a problem because he played on a bad Arizona team. He left and the Arizona team performance improved. The overwhelming evidence suggests that Chychrun is a huge defensive liability.

Now explain to an NHL GM why he wants to have Chychrun on his team.

Chychrun makes sense in Washington where the Caps are singularly driven by the desire for Ovechken to become the all time scoring leader. But he makes little sense anywhere else.
- spatso

If washington has mediocre season, watch for chychrun name to reappear at trade deadline. I would guess a florida team to be in on him as a rental. Then he will be back up for grabs next july 1, .

I don’t like the deal, but I think I could’ve stomached it if the pick was a 1st. We gave up a top4 dman for maybe a #4. We currently have him slotted next to chabot, but that’s with the hope he’ll work beside him….it’s very possible he becomes our #5-6.

There seems to be, at least from what I could see some internal and desperate pressure to make the playoffs. I get the feeling the Brady rumors were more than just rumors. They planted a seed.

He’s a super competitive guy, and I feel he’s not the type of player that’ll wait until his deal is done..we could very well see a situation like his brother: he gave the team a shot to build a competitive team, decides to leave 1-2 seasons before his contract is up and go in a different direction.

I also believe because it worked out for Matthew it’s more than likely this scenario plays out.

With that being said, Staios needs to be better at asset management. Again, it’s his first rodeo and it’s tough being a gm especially in a cap league.

Pinto signing was great. To me it masked a bit of chychrun and Joseph’s moves for the time being. Let’s see what else he could do to round up our bottom 6/d
- Trilla

The new ownership and management did not like the structure of the team. They told us very clearly about the players they wanted to dump.

We know that Jacques Martin and Alfie had a huge role in evaluating the talent over the second half of the season.

What, I don't understand is how some folks believe that Martin and Alfreddson would be able to figure it out but none of the other GMs or their advisors would clue into the problematic players.

In any market, the value of an asset is what the market is prepared to pay to purchase the asset. The market has spoken and it is clear that other teams did not put much value on the players the Sens did not like. This should not surprise anyone.