A couple of points beyond the generational stuff.

In his prime, I have not seen a must-win game that Crosby played in without seeing his ferocious competitiveness, his refusal to lose, his big game presence being manifested every second. Not all great players have that. i am thinking of qualities shared by Jordan, Mahomes, Curt Schilling for example. No way Crosby has a game 7 that McDavid did in the last SCF. McDavid wasn't bad by any stretch but Crosby isn't just not bad, he is the very best on ice during such games.

And Malkin: arguably the 2nd best center in the league during the heyday of the Pens. Carried the team on his back on the many occasions Crosby was out due to injury. And yet, throughout, content to play 2nd fiddle, and let Crosby be the man. Could have sulked, wanted to move to a bigger market. More attention, more endorsements. Never did.

In summary: not just 2 generational centers. But one who refused to lose and another who was content with being elite but supplemental.
- PT21

You were spot on until the last sentence. No such thing as being elite but supplemental

I agree, 2 very special players that are not easy to get and not readily available. You don't sign them as UFAs or trade for them....

Getting just one is half the battle, which makes the building process so much easier...not guaranteed. The filling in part may take time, but is not the hard part.
- Glak18

I don't think that model is emulatable by us. If Michkov does indeed become the hoped for terror, I am thinking of a different winner/model, one with a single superstar and other players you can frankly find later on in draft:

(cut and paste):

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson
Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie
Burakovsky-Eller-Connolly
Stephenson-Beagle-DSP

Kempny-Carlson
Orlov-Niskanen
Orpik-Djoos

Holtby to start.

I don't think that model is emulatable by us. If Michkov does indeed become the hoped for terror, I am thinking of a different winner/model, one with a single superstar and other players you can frankly find later on in draft:

(cut and paste):

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson
Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie
Burakovsky-Eller-Connolly
Stephenson-Beagle-DSP

Kempny-Carlson
Orlov-Niskanen
Orpik-Djoos

Holtby to start.
- PT21

I'm sorry I look at Backstrom as the elite center, he may not be Crosby or McDavid, but he had just as much impact as AO. Pretty sure he was a top 5 pick as well.

I don't think that model is emulatable by us. If Michkov does indeed become the hoped for terror, I am thinking of a different winner/model, one with a single superstar and other players you can frankly find later on in draft:

(cut and paste):

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson
Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie
Burakovsky-Eller-Connolly
Stephenson-Beagle-DSP

Kempny-Carlson
Orlov-Niskanen
Orpik-Djoos

Holtby to start.
- PT21

Not easy to find a Nik Backstrom later in the draft. That was really a one and done team. Kuznetsov went off in the playoffs and led the league in playoff scoring. Backstrom was tied for 2nd in the playoffs in assists and 3rd overall in playoff scoring. Backstrom put up 114 points in 139 playoff games. Pretty stout.

I'm sorry I look at Backstrom as the elite center, he may not be Crosby or McDavid, but he had just as much impact as AO. Pretty sure he was a top 5 pick as well.
- Glak18

I agree, he is just not aware of how good Backstrom was. He went 4th overall in 2006

1033 points in 1105 games.

I'm sorry I look at Backstrom as the elite center, he may not be Crosby or McDavid, but he had just as much impact as AO. Pretty sure he was a top 5 pick as well.
- Glak18

The word eilte is subjective. Very good? Sure. Elite? I disagree.

Here is the ranking of p/gp in playoffs in the past 15 years (min 30 games played). See where Backstrom ends up (with a robust # of games played by him)

(EDIT: for centers, ofc)

Just for poops & giggles:

Ristolainen (30% retained)

for

Raphael Lavoie

Lavoie I don't believe he will become a superstar, but depth at center with size.
- Glak18

I really believe Ristolainen is a Flyer until his contract is done then he can replace Rocky as PP coach. It would be nice to have a spot open for Bonk, Andrae or others that eliminates having to scratch that much salary cap.

The word eilte is subjective. Very good? Sure. Elite? I disagree.

Here is the ranking of p/gp in playoffs in the past 15 years (min 30 games played). See where Backstrom ends up (with a robust # of games played by him)

(EDIT: for centers, ofc)
- PT21

I will accept if you disagree, but personally I believe he had an elite skillset...so to me he was elite.

Update:

Also those numbers don't say the whole picture either. Granted it's not an excuse, but he has been dealing with injuries for a while now. Patrice Bergeron was below him in PPG...he will never go down as an offensive juggernaut, but Bergeron was elite.

Wow…

The point went way over your head…

At least someone gets it. We could potentially have a bona fide superstar from now and moving forward. Jett might not be on this level of stardom but as long as he can play to the best of his potential in terms of work ethic, Michkov may make Jett a better player points wise.
- roenick97

Dude, nothing you can say is going over my head. I was strictly talking about speed, but I guess that went over your head. Any moron can figure out that you were talking about staying up with Michkov talent wise, but I added insight to the obvious! Thanks for not understanding!

The word eilte is subjective. Very good? Sure. Elite? I disagree.

Here is the ranking of p/gp in playoffs in the past 15 years (min 30 games played). See where Backstrom ends up (with a robust # of games played by him)

(EDIT: for centers, ofc)
- PT21

There is no doubt that Backstrom was an elite player. Very good chance that he goes in the Hall of Fame.

I like the Jett Luchanko pick.








There, I said it.
- roenick97

Way too early, but thanks!

Sure just a couple of elite generational centers and a Norris trophy caliber defenseman. Not that far off at all!

You don't come to the correct conclusion when looking at Frost as a player. Many, many times you posted " he's invisible" and I proved you to be incorrect. You have a bias as well as an inability to assess the sport. As well as not being educated and informed on what statistical data can show.

Your agenda is now fully in view.
- MJL

I vehemently disagree!! If he was fully engaged as you propose then why the hell did he keep getting benched? You think Torts just hates him? You think I really have a personal vendetta against Frost? I observe and watch the games. I'll put my eyes and hockey acumen up against your dorky stats any day of the week as far as knowing when a player is giving it his all night after night. You see?

I will accept if you disagree, but personally I believe he had an elite skillset...so to me he was elite.
- Glak18

To me, he always looked better than his production. There were several playoffs when he was invisible for long stretches.

Anyway, more to the point: lots of names on that list picked beyond top 5. Point, Zeterberg, Datsyuk, Aho, Briere, Scheifele.

But my point is not a literal 1:1 comparison. More like: 1 superstar + some very good players is our most viable path forward.

It should be remembered though how narrow a path that is. Caps were perennial playoff disappointments till that 1 year and then faded after that. They were that 1 season away to be compared to the Jumbo Joe's Sharks for label of greatest underachieving team of modern times.

EDIT: replaced likely with viable.

I vehemently disagree!! If he was fully engaged as you propose then why the hell did he keep getting benched? You think Torts just hates him? You think I really have a personal vendetta against Frost? I observe and watch the games. I'll put my eyes and hockey acumen up against your dorky stats any day of the week as far as knowing when a player is giving it his all night after night. You see?
- Phillywhiteout

Are you seriously asking why he was benched? Frost led the team in scoring for a large chunk of the previous season and then Tortorella benched him after the first two games of the season. I read your first sentence, laughed and then stopped reading.

Are you seriously asking why he was benched? Frost led the team in scoring for a large chunk of the previous season and then Tortorella benched him after the first two games of the season. I read your first sentence, laughed and then stopped reading.
- MJL

that's how bad the team was and is.....

Wait til he finds out his birth date and year
- TobyFlenderson

Here's the thing Crosby never got a great team around him. He had his Hossa years and Pittsburgh brought in some late season rentals in cup years, but he NEVER got great players around him because he was unselfish with his contracts.

That has always been the knock on the Crosby Penguins, the supporting cast! Will Crosby finally have someone to play with? He was and is an amazing player, which makes it that much incredible that he was able to win 3 cups with the teams he had.

2 elite centers can take a team many places. I won't even start with their defense and goaltending over the years.

*cough*

MATT MURRAY!
- Glak18

Anti Neimi says hi

Are you seriously asking why he was benched? Frost led the team in scoring for a large chunk of the previous season and then Tortorella benched him after the first two games of the season. I read your first sentence, laughed and then stopped reading.
- MJL

He was benched because Torts develops biases because of personality, and he lets that cloud his judgement of play. That is indisputable when you look at the stats and the metrics.

He was benched because Torts develops biases because of personality, and he lets that cloud his judgement of play. That is indisputable when you look at the stats and the metrics.
- MBFlyerfan

see the Hartnell, Scott story about torts and the truth

He was benched because Torts develops biases because of personality, and he lets that cloud his judgement of play. That is indisputable when you look at the stats and the metrics.
- MBFlyerfan

Personalities and certain players. Tortorella's decision making is often irrational and not supported by the facts. There is overwhelming evidence that a player being scratched, benched, overplayed, etc. In and of itself is not an indication of anything and can't be used as a confirming analysis of a player when it comes to Tortorella.

To me, he always looked better than his production. There were several playoffs when he was invisible for long stretches.

Anyway, more to the point: lots of names on that list picked beyond top 5. Point, Zeterberg, Datsyuk, Aho, Briere, Scheifele.

But my point is not a literal 1:1 comparison. More like: 1 superstar + some very good players is our most viable path forward.

It should be remembered though how narrow a path that is. Caps were perennial playoff disappointments till that 1 year and then faded after that. They were that 1 season away to be compared to the Jumbo Joe's Sharks for label of greatest underachieving team of modern times.

EDIT: replaced likely with viable.
- PT21

That's why I always try to separate stat lines from the player.

Crosby, McDavid, Lindros etc....were considered generational before getting a single point in the NHL. The tags based on potential is mostly graded by the players skillset.

Player production and stats, I believe, are products not just of the players skills, but also the team, the linemates, the coaches and other environmental factors. That's why I hate when players are compared by stats.

So when I see players that have better numbers or ones that compare, I don't always see them as equal, which is why there will ALWAYS be debates.

Backstrom's skillset of vision, ice IQ, passing, underrated shot...he had an elite skillset...I loved Briere as a player, but Danny wasn't even close to Backstrom and I bet Danny would say the same thing.

Personalities and certain players. Tortorella's decision making is often irrational and not supported by the facts. There is overwhelming evidence that a player being scratched, benched, overplayed, etc. In and of itself is not an indication of anything and can't be used as a confirming analysis of a player when it comes to Tortorella.
- MJL

Just stop with your rhetoric against Torts. He has a track record and a damn good one of weeding out soft players. Frost had a good second half of the previous season and WASN'T bench by Torts. He faltered at many different times last season and was rightfully benched. Frost needs to $hit or get off the pot! There are many nights when you NEVER see him around the puck or involved in the play. He becomes a perimeter player far too often and that's the fact Jack!! Oh, and thanks yet again!

I like the Jett Luchanko pick.








There, I said it.
- roenick97

I'm with you! Let's see how he develops this year and then guess where he would fall into the upcoming deep draft next year if he wasn't of age to be drafted this year

Either way, a little refining and this kid could be a stud

I MAY like the pick....sometime in the future.

Judging the player based off 2 rookie games and saying "I hate the pick" is the same thing. End result matters most.
- Glak18

I saw Jett play along with Denver Barkey in Plymouth Michigan as a showcase for the World Juniors’ team Canada. I think team Canada thinks very highly of both players because both players were all situations and started most of these situations. I think Jett’s reputation as a good player is gaining steam even outside of the Flyers organization.

Way too early, but thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

It’s way too early for me to like the pick?

Oh do tell…

This should be interesting.