The coach pumping a players tires (a player who asked to be traded to boot) is nothing new and doesn't mean jack imo. Berube isn't the GM, he doesn't decide who gets moved and who doesn't - sure they may ask his input but ultimately he doesn't decide.

I mean for all we know the plan from top down at this point is to go into full sales pitch mode about him in the media to get a better return on a trade.

Regardless it doesn't really matter all that much, the secondary scoring is nice and if they keep him so be it but I just hope if he stays he gets decent minutes and is at least average defensively.

He's looked much better defensively this off season so if he can keep that up it would be nice.

I'm still not convinced that moving him now isn't the best play (in a package with some of the other things the Leafs perhaps overpay for or have too much of and can move).
- Cush29

I'm probably more inclined to lean towards an earnest assessment for Robertson in those words. It's what we all saw in the preseason. Now 'in the preseason' is very much the thing.

I am not hung up on him requesting/demanding a trade. The fact that it took so long - to me - indicates that Robertson ended up trusting Berube more than he trusts Treliving. I'm not going to sugar coat this - I would have been pissed if I were him as well.

In 2021 he suffered a knee injury in his first game that limited him to just 6 NHL games; the next year he fractured his fibula in the AHL and only played 10 NHL games - and the following year he had a season ending shoulder injury.

Last year he was finally healthy and often playing pretty well. He found himself benched 26 times and I can say that an observer (and even tracking his stats in games before he was benched) I don't know what Keefe was doing or why he was doing it. Like he did miss the first 11 games due to cap reasons. But then he'd have a decent stretch of 2 goals in 3 games and be sat for 2 - come back, score in the game he played and be sat for 5 of the next 6. Then play 15 straight and be sat for 6 straight.

At the end of the day I get his frustration.

For the record, Robertson's presence likely didn't affect the team as much as the numbers suggest, but they were .634% (104pts) with him and .596% (98 pts) without.

I was referred as a "Grand Elf" as he said to Tom


but it's Gandalf .........

Moving out robertson just to keep patch is such a bad move.
Berube isnt the gm and could just be pr stroking for the media....or hes not. Either way, hes the new long term expensive coach hand picked by Tre.....so he would have a lot say.

We'll see how things play out.
- Fakepartofme

I 100% agree with you on that and I was fairly vocal about not even wanting Patch and from the bit of pre season I've watched he hasn't been anything close to better than Robertson - almost like he has no doubt he's going to be signed vs Robertson who appears motivated to prove just what he can do.

That being said I feel like Patch does have that assurance and Robertson is the odd man out and that's a reason I'd move him in a package deal with maybe Lily and a Janorick type.

You are bang on - we will see how it all shakes out, JT's 11Milly this seaon is really the root cause of all of this and at least that is off the books next year - let's just hope Paul & Mitch don't demand too much of the savings.

A fair chance? He got nothing close to a fair chance. Its ridiculous.
A fair chance would be at least the first month of the reg season.
Not saying he would be perfect, but he could play well at 2C, it would change the look of the leafs for the better imo.
- Fakepartofme

Also strongly agree with you that if that was the fair chance it was a joke and a waste of time. Oh well guess we will see.

Moving out robertson just to keep patch is such a bad move.
Berube isnt the gm and could just be pr stroking for the media....or hes not. Either way, hes the new long term expensive coach hand picked by Tre.....so he would have a lot say.

We'll see how things play out.
- Fakepartofme

I don't think the play is to move Robertson to keep Patch. I think the play is to trade Robertson as a sweetener with Lilly to get a legit 3C.

All the pundits were saying after Robbie was signed that this didn't mean he'd be with the Leafs this year. I think a trade is still a possible option, but truthfully probably not going to happen.

For sure, he is going to pot 20+ this year, (somewhere), as long as he's healthy.

I don't think Willy did get a fair chance at Centre - having playing portions of 2 preseason games there. That said, I don't really think it's his position. There's too much responsibility and I think it takes him away from his game - which does involve cheating on the puck a little. The Centre shouldn't be doing that.

I think the things you gain by putting a player like Nylander at Centre are outweighed by the things you lose.
- Monkeypunk

Wondering if it is more of a "let's see how JT looks this year" than a serious eval of Willy at center.

I also think that a new contract next year that's substantially less has better options for 3C than this season.

Last year he was finally healthy and often playing pretty well. He found himself benched 26 times and I can say that an observer (and even tracking his stats in games before he was benched) I don't know what Keefe was doing or why he was doing it. Like he did miss the first 11 games due to cap reasons. But then he'd have a decent stretch of 2 goals in 3 games and be sat for 2 - come back, score in the game he played and be sat for 5 of the next 6. Then play 15 straight and be sat for 6 straight.

At the end of the day I get his frustration.
- Monkeypunk

I think everyone can understand Robertson's frustration with being benched or sent to the Marlies, but he was pretty terrible defensively last year. He's been better this pre-season, but we'll see if that carries over into the regular season. He put up a f@ck tonne of points in limited minutes last year, so there for sure is potential for him to be a secondary scoring threat this year. We'll see what Tre does.

Moving out robertson just to keep patch is such a bad move.
Berube isnt the gm and could just be pr stroking for the media....or hes not. Either way, hes the new long term expensive coach hand picked by Tre.....so he would have a lot say.

We'll see how things play out.
- Fakepartofme

Yeah, from the perspective on who you want for the future of the team.

Depends on what assets you get in return. You get no assets for not signing Patch. There are a couple other guys that look replaceable if you can move them.

Yeah, from the perspective on who you want for the future of the team.

Depends on what assets you get in return. You get no assets for not signing Patch. There are a couple other guys that look replaceable if you can move them.
- Aetherial

As noted earlier in this thread yesterday, this lineup is cap complaint providing that Pacioretty is at $1.1 and Lorentz is at $775k (there is $30k to play with, which isn't much).

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Pacioretty - Tavares - Nylander
Domi - Holmberg - Robertson
McMann - Kampf - Jarnkrok
Reaves / Lorentz
Dewar (LTIR)

Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Benoit - Liljegren
Myers or Rifai
Hakanpaa (LTIR)

Woll
Stolarz

Now if you need to take Dewar off of LTIR and put him back on the roster, his $1.18m - which is exactly the capspace we get from demoting Reaves and using that $30k free.

If you want Hakanpaa to fit in with his $1.47m, then you're probably demoting Myers or Rifai - whoever takes that 7D spot - and then probably losing a forward in that group. Any single forward from the group paired with the demotion of the 7th defenseman will make the lineup cap compliant.

So if Lorentz signs and doesn't play well; if Jarnkrok doesn't impress; if Robertson craps the bed . . . basically anyone in the bottom-6 is plausibly at risk.

For me, I think Robertson has earned a chance to be in the top 6. All he does is score which is what this team consistently can't do in the playoffs. And all this talk about being a defensive liability; is he really? Pre-season or not, all I've seen so far is him making good decisions, skating hard, back checking, and making notable plays defensively. I want to see what he can do.

This is what I'd like to see personally:

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - McMann
Lorentz - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
Dewar / Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Benoit - Hakanpaa (When Ready)
Rifai / Timmins (send one down when Hak plays)

Woll
Stolarz


Trade:
Kampf
Liljegren

I 100% agree with you on that and I was fairly vocal about not even wanting Patch and from the bit of pre season I've watched he hasn't been anything close to better than Robertson - almost like he has no doubt he's going to be signed vs Robertson who appears motivated to prove just what he can do.

That being said I feel like Patch does have that assurance and Robertson is the odd man out and that's a reason I'd move him in a package deal with maybe Lily and a Janorick type.

You are bang on - we will see how it all shakes out, JT's 11Milly this seaon is really the root cause of all of this and at least that is off the books next year - let's just hope Paul & Mitch don't demand too much of the savings.
- Cush29

Agreed. I know its marners right to ask for huge cash based on cap going up, stats etc but it would go a long way with leafers (i know players dont care about that) if paul and mitch signed for the same as Willy or just above. Nothing more than 12.
The dream would be for him to take queue from crosby and be like "(frank) it, give me 10 or exactly what i make now).
Not happening though

As noted earlier in this thread yesterday, this lineup is cap complaint providing that Pacioretty is at $1.1 and Lorentz is at $775k (there is $30k to play with, which isn't much).

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Pacioretty - Tavares - Nylander
Domi - Holmberg - Robertson
McMann - Kampf - Jarnkrok
Reaves / Lorentz
Dewar (LTIR)

Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Benoit - Liljegren
Myers or Rifai
Hakanpaa (LTIR)

Woll
Stolarz

Now if you need to take Dewar off of LTIR and put him back on the roster, his $1.18m - which is exactly the capspace we get from demoting Reaves and using that $30k free.

If you want Hakanpaa to fit in with his $1.47m, then you're probably demoting Myers or Rifai - whoever takes that 7D spot - and then probably losing a forward in that group. Any single forward from the group paired with the demotion of the 7th defenseman will make the lineup cap compliant.

So if Lorentz signs and doesn't play well; if Jarnkrok doesn't impress; if Robertson craps the bed . . . basically anyone in the bottom-6 is plausibly at risk.
- Monkeypunk

I like kampf but and i may be alone on this (i havent check stats or the analytics) but i feel like dewar brings about 85% of what kampf does for half the price.
I like Jarnkrok as well, and when healthy hes a great option to use anywhere in the line up, but if he cant stay healthy, moving out his contract could help as well.

Garnie is a regular here who was fond of Engvall but i think towards the end soured on him. He took a hiatus after the last playoff loss but he pop in from time to time. The sure sign it's him is the mention of long necks and one of 2 GIF's one being a giraffe and the other being dancing baboons. He is not the Polkaroo (well maybe he is for you).


Thick necks is a Sklappy mandatory requirement for the team he will lead to the promised land of being Cup champs. He believes a lack of thick necks, not enough guys "pulling lawnmowers" on opponents, too many pencil necks with big hats or silly fashion first clothing whose richards shrink come playoffs like they are naked in 5 feet of snow are all the kryponite to the past Leafs teams in the playoffs.

He will correct me if I am wrong or mistaken - he is a regular here also.
- Cush29

Thanks for the background.

It mostly makes sense, save for the "Lawnmower Pulling"

Thanks for the background.

It mostly makes sense, save for the "Lawnmower Pulling"
- Snot Dillingham

'tis slang for what both players in this video are doing....the motion of throwing punches is similar to the motion of pull starting a lawn mower. Apparently it has another slang meaning I was unaware of until today - it's a very "urban dictionary" type of slang, google at your own risk!

Garnie is a regular here who was fond of Engvall but i think towards the end soured on him. He took a hiatus after the last playoff loss but he pop in from time to time. The sure sign it's him is the mention of long necks and one of 2 GIF's one being a giraffe and the other being dancing baboons. He is not the Polkaroo (well maybe he is for you).


Thick necks is a Sklappy mandatory requirement for the team he will lead to the promised land of being Cup champs. He believes a lack of thick necks, not enough guys "pulling lawnmowers" on opponents, too many pencil necks with big hats or silly fashion first clothing whose richards shrink come playoffs like they are naked in 5 feet of snow are all the kryponite to the past Leafs teams in the playoffs.

He will correct me if I am wrong or mistaken - he is a regular here also.
- Cush29

I like kampf but and i may be alone on this (i havent check stats or the analytics) but i feel like dewar brings about 85% of what kampf does for half the price.
I like Jarnkrok as well, and when healthy hes a great option to use anywhere in the line up, but if he cant stay healthy, moving out his contract could help as well.
- Fakepartofme

Defensive metrics are so subjective that it's hard to really get value on them. You almost need to have individual stats for board battles won/lost, loose puck battles won/lost, in good coverage, in poor coverage and so on - like I'm sure a lot of teams have their own guys watching this stuff and making notes so they can go over it with the players, but we wouldn't see those numbers - and from how that stuff is tracked opinions vary significantly as what is a won/lost battle.

Like we can all look at SA/60, or HDCA/60 to get a sense - but the 4th line on most teams ends up with some pretty piss poor metrics here.

So that all said - I tend to feel similarly about Dewar. He's faster, has a small bit of offensive sense - but he is also about 20 pounds and 4 inches smaller than Kampf. Given that the 4C role really lends itself towards those board battles and winning puck battles, Kampf is definitely better at that. Is he worth double what Dewar is paid? We all know the answer is no.

If Berube likes what Lorentz can do then he might supplant Kampf. He's bigger, stronger and offers about the same level of offensive absence!

Defensive metrics are so subjective that it's hard to really get value on them. You almost need to have individual stats for board battles won/lost, loose puck battles won/lost, in good coverage, in poor coverage and so on - like I'm sure a lot of teams have their own guys watching this stuff and making notes so they can go over it with the players, but we wouldn't see those numbers - and from how that stuff is tracked opinions vary significantly as what is a won/lost battle.

Like we can all look at SA/60, or HDCA/60 to get a sense - but the 4th line on most teams ends up with some pretty piss poor metrics here.

So that all said - I tend to feel similarly about Dewar. He's faster, has a small bit of offensive sense - but he is also about 20 pounds and 4 inches smaller than Kampf. Given that the 4C role really lends itself towards those board battles and winning puck battles, Kampf is definitely better at that. Is he worth double what Dewar is paid? We all know the answer is no.

If Berube likes what Lorentz can do then he might supplant Kampf. He's bigger, stronger and offers about the same level of offensive absence!
- Monkeypunk

For me, I think Robertson has earned a chance to be in the top 6. All he does is score which is what this team consistently can't do in the playoffs. And all this talk about being a defensive liability; is he really? Pre-season or not, all I've seen so far is him making good decisions, skating hard, back checking, and making notable plays defensively. I want to see what he can do.

This is what I'd like to see personally:

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - McMann
Lorentz - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
Dewar / Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
OEL - McCabe
Benoit - Hakanpaa (When Ready)
Rifai / Timmins (send one down when Hak plays)

Woll
Stolarz


Trade:
Kampf
Liljegren
- torfc23

My guess is that lines 2 and 3 will be a blender all year, as well as line 1 LW.

My guess is that lines 2 and 3 will be a blender all year, as well as line 1 LW.
- Atomic Wedgie

I'd still like to see Domi get reps with AM from time to time, but Knies is really good up there as well. Tough situation.

I'd still like to see Domi get reps with AM from time to time, but Knies is really good up there as well. Tough situation.
- Whipper

I'd also like to experiment with McMann on line 2. If you look at his points/60, he's up there.

new blog everyone

James Mirtle
@mirtle

Lots of Leafs cuts today.

Steeves on waivers. Blandisi, Grebenkin, Hirvonen, A. Nylander, Pare, Quillan, Shaw, Tverberg, Kokkonen, Mattinen, Niemela, Pietroniro, Webber and Akhtyamov all sent down to Marlies.

12:21 PM · Oct 4, 2024
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