You want him as your first line center and playing on the PP? Thats how he got those numbers. The team had no one else to put out there. Has 0 to do with how Torts used him then and now unless you want him playing ahead of Frost and Selke at Center. 0 to do with Torts stunting his growth. The fact is there just isnt more there than a 30 to 35 pt forward in there that can play defense which is still pretty good.
- 26912 PP

Well said

The current state of Flyers I would say no. The Flyers say they are rebuilding. To me that would mean they emphasize player development more than a team that is simply trying to win games.
- mickel25

team has to come first. You have to build a winning mentality. Buffalo has been a prime example of a losing mentality. Buffalo had such a good roster in the past and they could do anything with it because they did not build a room where losing was not acceptable.

We are looking at a roster that contained Eichel, Reinhart, Montour, Ullmark, Lehner, Evander Kane and Ryan OReilly.

Part of a coaches job is to help that player be the best player they can be but the majority of that rests on the player. Coach tells them what needs to be done and how to improve their game and then they put that into practice and earn a promotion in the lineup. I dont feel like gifting top minutes is an effective way to develop a player. Minutes should be earned.

Frost for example needs to do more than just be better than the other Cs, that isnt exactly a high bar. He needs to work harder than them. It is no coincidence the best players in the league have incredible work ethics. A Morgan Frost that hustles and gives 110% every shift is a better player than a Morgan Frost that coasts and only plays when he has the puck in the offensive zone like a Pierre Luc Dubois. PLD could have been top line C but his laziness has made him nothing more than a borderline #2C that no team apparently wants hence why hes on his 4th team in 5 seasons

Tyler Ennis said it best. Guys like Mackinnon, Crosby and McDavid train to be the best where as guys like him trained to make the NHL. Not the exact quote but along those lines.

I like Poehling a lot. I have wanted the Flyers to trade Laughton for quite some time now. The thing is, even with Laughton out of the way, I think Lycksell is going to challenge for that wing spot.
- jd250

You overvalue Poehling just as Tortorella does. He skates well, is mediocre defensively and has hands of stone. A 4th line center at best

You're incorrect. That is not what I'm referring to. Tortorella has used him incorrectly as a player bu using him at center and putting the team needs first above what is best for the player. Cates offensive production completely drying up is a result of that.
- MJL

he had 38 points as a center. then struggled offensively last season. so, there is a history there of producing.

team needs > player needs

200 ft game

plays with pace

conditioning
- corduroy

Torts said while being an ESPN analyst, before he took the Flyers job, that the Flyers needed more foot speed. He said it again during this camp. That is why I think Luchanko is getting a long look. The Flyers not only need to play faster, they need players that can play the game fast. Luchanko is showing he can do that, or develop to do that. The question I have is, is it better for Luchanko to develop with the Flyers or a bad Geulph team? I am not sure, but I am leaning to Luchanko going back to Geulph, playing the season, and then joining the Flyers once their season ends.

And speaking of playing fast, I really liked what I saw from JR Avon last night, especially his goal on the PP. I would love to see how he develops this year at LHV.

You overvalue Poehling just as Tortorella does. He skates well, is mediocre defensively and has hands of stone. A 4th line center at best
- MJL

I disagree. I like Poehling on the 4th line, but I also think he can play 3C if needed. ND has hands of stone. Hathaway has hands of stone. I think Poehling is a bit better than that.

It was an ahl game so I would hope he looked good
- WhiskeyMan

Yes. Have to take it with a grain of salt. Overall though Andrae has had a good camp. Hasnt blown anyone out of the water but probably good enough to make a case to make the team like Zamula did last season.

Unfortunately I agree that the Seeler signing was a mistake, I could be OK with it had maybe he didnt get that NTC for the first two seasons. It just seems like if they want Andrae in the lineup, it will be very difficult to make room for him. If Seeler didnt have the NTC, you could move him if you felt Andrae was ready which in my opinion would have been the better move.

As of right now the only way Andrae gets up is if there is an injury or Risto is moved which earliest could happen would be mid season assuming he has a good season and the Flyers do want to move him.

You need to look in the mirror. There are plenty of us who have condemned his racist behavior and stood behind you. Including me and you then turned around and attacked those in other matters. My question to you is why are you interacting with an obvious racist? If you won't help yourself, why are you expecting others to step in?
- MJL

You need to look in the mirror. You demand respect but don’t give it in return. You demand answers and don’t give answers in return. What you do with JD is predatory. You pick and choose bullying easy targets but the moment someone challenges, where are your responses? You are this boards version of John Tortorella. Einhorn is Finkel and Finkel is Einhorn. You hate the man, but you are exactly like the man. You are what you hate.

Nobody here has to like me but if you turn a blind eye to his comments, you’re an accomplice. You’re condoning it. You’re encouraging it.

I disagree. I like Poehling on the 4th line, but I also think he can play 3C if needed. ND has hands of stone. Hathaway has hands of stone. I think Poehling is a bit better than that.
- jd250

Hathaway doesn't have hands of stone. Nic D has hands of stone.

And Frost has the silkiest hands of stone in the league

Yes. Have to take it with a grain of salt. Overall though Andrae has had a good camp. Hasnt blown anyone out of the water but probably good enough to make a case to make the team like Zamula did last season.

Unfortunately I agree that the Seeler signing was a mistake, I could be OK with it had maybe he didnt get that NTC for the first two seasons. It just seems like if they want Andrae in the lineup, it will be very difficult to make room for him. If Seeler didnt have the NTC, you could move him if you felt Andrae was ready which in my opinion would have been the better move.

As of right now the only way Andrae gets up is if there is an injury or Risto is moved which earliest could happen would be mid season assuming he has a good season and the Flyers do want to move him.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Seeler should have been signed as the 7th D.
Torts did say Andrae won the 8th dman spot by default because no one else stepped up.

Yes, Deslauriers is not an NHL player that his point. The Flyers should do the right thing and waive him. The Flyers should be in the business of winning hockey games, not worrying about player's feelings.
- jd250

torts WILL NOT disrespkt a vetran! This is why barring injury ej will be in the lineup next Friday

Seeler should have been signed as the 7th D.
Torts did say Andrae won the 8th dman spot by default because no one else stepped up.
- WhiskeyMan

seeler is a starter for every nhl team. he is much better than a 7th.

please waive/trade Cates today

team has to come first. You have to build a winning mentality. Buffalo has been a prime example of a losing mentality. Buffalo had such a good roster in the past and they could do anything with it because they did not build a room where losing was not acceptable.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Complete bullpoop. This is the rhetoric that the Flyer target as a fanbase. Buffalo hasn't won because they haven't built a complete enough team. Nothing to do with anything in the room. You've been brainwashed by the Flyers.

Part of a coaches job is to help that player be the best player they can be but the majority of that rests on the player. Coach tells them what needs to be done and how to improve their game and then they put that into practice and earn a promotion in the lineup. I dont feel like gifting top minutes is an effective way to develop a player. Minutes should be earned.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Flawed obsolete thinking. You make an investment in a player. One that you drafted and have placed hopes for on your team. What you do is that you don't gift a player anything. You give that player an opportunity and you remain patient. You coach him through his weaknesses and you don't stop him from gaining confidence and using his strengths. The Flyers do it your way, which is why they pretty much suck at developing players. They'll have another group of young players who again "didn't earn it" that will rot in the AHL and never make it.

Frost for example needs to do more than just be better than the other Cs, that isnt exactly a high bar. He needs to work harder than them. It is no coincidence the best players in the league have incredible work ethics. A Morgan Frost that hustles and gives 110% every shift is a better player than a Morgan Frost that coasts and only plays when he has the puck in the offensive zone like a Pierre Luc Dubois. PLD could have been top line C but his laziness has made him nothing more than a borderline #2C that no team apparently wants hence why hes on his 4th team in 5 seasons


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Frost by all accounts in his entire Flyers career has worked hard. Done everything the coaches have asked. Has overcome bad development by coaches such as Yeo and Tortorella. Has overcome a serious injury that cost him a season. He has steadily improved and overcome the road blocks put in his way by injury and by the Flyers. All he needs is to be left alone, given consistent playing time and we'll see what happens

I disagree. I like Poehling on the 4th line, but I also think he can play 3C if needed. ND has hands of stone. Hathaway has hands of stone. I think Poehling is a bit better than that.
- jd250

Hathaway is a better player by far than Poehling is but he doesn't belong on the Flyers. Poehling has no business being a 3C on any team. Your player analysis continues to leave a lot to be desired.

Frost by all accounts in his entire Flyers career has worked hard. Done everything the coaches have asked. Has overcome bad development by coaches such as Yeo and Tortorella. Has overcome a serious injury that cost him a season. He has steadily improved and overcome the road blocks put in his way by injury and by the Flyers. All he needs is to be left alone, given consistent playing time and we'll see what happens
- MJL

frostky should be anointed saint hood.

You need to look in the mirror. You demand respect but don’t give it in return. You demand answers and don’t give answers in return. What you do with JD is predatory. You pick and choose bullying easy targets but the moment someone challenges, where are your responses? You are this boards version of John Tortorella. Einhorn is Finkel and Finkel is Einhorn. You hate the man, but you are exactly like the man. You are what you hate.

Nobody here has to like me but if you turn a blind eye to his comments, you’re an accomplice. You’re condoning it. You’re encouraging it.
- roenick97

Bullpoop, keep playing the victim. Keep responding to him and giving him what he wants. Why would you or anyone respond to a blatant racist?

Your claim that I don't respond to challenges, is false. I don't respond to idiots. For the record, I don't consider you to be that but I refrain from interacting with you for different reasons. Nobody in the history of this forum has stood up for you more than I have. Good luck

please waive/trade Cates today
- Bayareaflyer

Waiving him would be a mistake. Trading him would depend on the return.

Bullpoop, keep playing the victim. Keep responding to him and giving him what he wants. Why would you or anyone respond to a blatant racist?

Your claim that I don't respond to challenges, is false. I don't respond to idiots. For the record, I don't consider you to be that but I refrain from interacting with you for different reasons. Nobody in the history of this forum has stood up for you more than I have. Good luck
- MJL

any links to back the claims up? you deal only in facts no?

You need to look in the mirror. You demand respect but don’t give it in return. You demand answers and don’t give answers in return. What you do with JD is predatory. You pick and choose bullying easy targets but the moment someone challenges, where are your responses? You are this boards version of John Tortorella. Einhorn is Finkel and Finkel is Einhorn. You hate the man, but you are exactly like the man. You are what you hate.

Nobody here has to like me but if you turn a blind eye to his comments, you’re an accomplice. You’re condoning it. You’re encouraging it.
- roenick97

you the man colin. cry sally cry, wipe your dirty eyes.

you the man colin. cry sally cry, wipe your dirty eyes.
- hello it's me 2050

Dont cry - dry your eyes - here comes your mother with those two little guys

You would think a poster would get the hint when you never respond to their comments. I guess not

You need to look in the mirror. You demand respect but don’t give it in return. You demand answers and don’t give answers in return. What you do with JD is predatory. You pick and choose bullying easy targets but the moment someone challenges, where are your responses? You are this boards version of John Tortorella. Einhorn is Finkel and Finkel is Einhorn. You hate the man, but you are exactly like the man. You are what you hate.

Nobody here has to like me but if you turn a blind eye to his comments, you’re an accomplice. You’re condoning it. You’re encouraging it.
- roenick97

What is your expectations of the people on this forum?

Dont cry - dry your eyes - here comes your mother with those two little guys
- corduroy

You’re just as bad he is, bud.

What is your expectations of the people on this forum?
- mickel25

Let me answer your question with a question of your own. Do you condone racism or prejudice or stereotyping of any kind?