I think it will play out a little differently. Some of these guys will stick around because not only are their contracts difficult to move, but the team will need to stay at the floor. Maybe someone like Rust or EK end up being moved after the Pens eat some salary. But guys like Jarry and Graves I don't think go without sweeteners that they won't do if they start a rebuild.

Crosby and Letang could get interesting.
- Tojo.

EK is not tradeable...he doesnt play a lick of defense and at 10M per ugly

Jarry will be auditioned for two weeks in WBS. This may be the best chance we have to rid ourselves of him and actually get a decent return. We will get the short end of the trade here, but it will be what's best moving forward.

I'm not trading Graves, not yet anyway. He's been a decent player so far. I may even keep him.

I can see your side of this. I just think we're close to blowing it up.
- Thunderbolt

Jarry will be tradeable with about 1.5M retained but you arent getting bv anything worthwhile in return.

EK is not tradeable...he doesnt play a lick of defense and at 10M per ugly
- hfc355

He is most definitely tradeable. Not going to get a monster package for him but every other team sees what we see. A horribly coached and assembled team.

He won the Norris with +100 and the came to Pittsburgh and has been mediocre. I think there are a bunch of teams that would be in on him.

Dubas is a horrible GM
- optimus-reim

He is. Definitely amongst the worst in the league.

Letang has lost a step or two. He used to make up for mistakes by outskating guys. Having Dumoulin back helped also. Dumoulin was the biggest unsung hero this team has had in a long time, maybe ever.

Guentzel: I may be alone in this, but I seriously doubt he wanted to sign here. Whether he wanted to sign here or not, Dubas did him a favor.
- Thunderbolt

Completely with you on Dumo. Really outstanding player for a long time that slid a bit under the radar with all the offensive stars.

Jake? Guess we'll never know. Seemed to me like he wanted to stay. I can't disagree with you though that he's better off elsewhere.

Completely with you on Dumo. Really outstanding player for a long time that slid a bit under the radar with all the offensive stars.

Jake? Guess we'll never know. Seemed to me like he wanted to stay. I can't disagree with you though that he's better off elsewhere.
- Tojo.

Jake 100% wanted to stay, but probably not so much that he was willing to take a $10M pay cut over the next 7 years.

I was ok with moving on from him but aside from the fact he was really talented, everyone may have underestimated the impact in the locker room. This feels like a team full of players that don't really want to play with each other.

We've had so many great locker room guys over the years... Whitney, Talbot, Laraque, Fleury, Kunitz, Kessel... Jake was a quirky guy that everyone liked. Is there anyone fun left?

Does Sully completely flip the lines on their head tonight? At least pretend your trying something to get this team going.

Jake 100% wanted to stay, but probably not so much that he was willing to take a $10M pay cut over the next 7 years.

I was ok with moving on from him but aside from the fact he was really talented, everyone may have underestimated the impact in the locker room. This feels like a team full of players that don't really want to play with each other.

We've had so many great locker room guys over the years... Whitney, Talbot, Laraque, Fleury, Kunitz, Kessel... Jake was a quirky guy that everyone liked. Is there anyone fun left?
- MacPatty

The return for Jake sucked balls. 2 prospects who can’t make this roster and a 3rd liner and a 2nd???? Should have moved him earlier.

Hard to be a worse gm than Hex but dubas figured out how.

So the 3rd string goalie, who gave up 4, was the best player on the team last night.

GM Rachel Maddow has always been over-rated, and since getting the keys to the bus, has delivered underwhelming performance. This has the makings of a long season. Sully has morphed into Dan Bylsma [groundhogs day] instead of finding his version of Michel Thierren & ripping into this group. Something must change.

Sadly Guentzel's camp leaked that Dubas never put out an offer. I heard we put an offer out this offseason, but it wasn't even considered. I don't think Guentzel on this team would even help.

I read a good article about the current situation. Sullivan for the last few seasons has been preaching the same system across the board. It doesn't work this way. A good coach plays to the strengths of his players. Unfortunately he isn't. A prime example of this that they provided was Graves pitching in and being aggressive when he is not that type of player. I think they should fire Sullivan. If the team still sucks the rest of the year. Fire Dubas or hire an actual GM at the end of the season.

The return for Jake sucked balls. 2 prospects who can’t make this roster and a 3rd liner and a 2nd???? Should have moved him earlier.

Hard to be a worse gm than Hex but dubas figured out how.
- sammy87

I did hear at one point Colorado offered Bowen Byram and Ross Colton for Guentzel. I think Vancouver we willing to put a package of 2 players as well. Dubas wanted Picks and prospects more so than anything else. Some rumors said because of his familiarity with Bunting it was one reason he went so deep in talks with Carolina.

The beginning of the end

The return for Jake sucked balls. 2 prospects who can’t make this roster and a 3rd liner and a 2nd???? Should have moved him earlier.

Hard to be a worse gm than Hex but dubas figured out how.
- sammy87

There scary part of that trade to me is Dubas has admitted he's higher on Bunting, Koivunen, and Luscious then most people in hockey are and that's why they took that deal. So it rests largely on his judgement that we'll get close to value for Jake which feels sketchy. I mean if he thought so well of Bunting, why didn't he try to bring him in as an UFA that off-season?

The beginning of the end
- halo63

That was a couple of years ago when they missed their first playoffs. This is the middle of the end.

Does Sully completely flip the lines on their head tonight? At least pretend you’re trying something to get this team going.
- Thorny87

No. He’ll still to the same lines and scratch st Ivany or a bottom 6 forward.

Rust has to be stapled to Sid cuz it worked 4 years ago.

I have always been of the opinion that the way that the Pens play tends to burn out goalies and eventually make them "crack" (lose their nerve). At one point Fleury, Murray, and Jarry were among the best goalies in the league. Fleury played in the Olympics for Canada in 2010, and would have been in the ASG if there had been one that year. Murray started in Stanley Cup Finals games as a rookie and set the team shutout record at 225:49. And Jarry did play in the ASG and was probably the best goalie in the league that year.

In each case the inordinate number of high quality chances against wears on the nerves of goalies to the point where they crack. Fleury lasted the longest because he had the best natural ability of any Pens' goalie ever, and the team in front of him was younger and faster and could cover a bit better for their mistakes and gambles that went wrong. Murray also had this, to a somewhat lesser extent. Jarry did not and burned out faster. The best thing for Jarry at this point would be to go to a team that plays good defense. If he could get sorted out psychologically he could still be an effective NHL goalie. I have to also wonder if Ned is getting to that point too.

Blomqvist got shelled last night. That game should have been 10-0, if it were not for the numerous amazing saves he made. McDavid and Draisaitl could have sat out and they would have still won. Nearly all of the forwards are bad at puck possession and many take frequent risks, which puts added pressure on the defense. Letang must think he is still 23 and tries play that way. I suspect that if Torts were their coach he would health-scratch Letang tonight, given how horrid he was last night and the fact that he refuses to change the way he plays. It is only a matter of time before Blomqvist gets burned out too, unless this team starts to focus on reducing the quality chances against.

WBS using one of the youngest top 6 I can remember when not ravaged by injuries. Nice to see.

Katchouk 26
Bennstrom 25
Poulin 23
Broz 22
Koivunen 21
McGroarty 20

1 goal on 22 shots against Jarry through 2 so far

The beginning of the end
- halo63

Nah, the beginning of the end began about 6 years ago haha. It's almost the end now.

There scary part of that trade to me is Dubas has admitted he's higher on Bunting, Koivunen, and Luscious then most people in hockey are and that's why they took that deal. So it rests largely on his judgement that we'll get close to value for Jake which feels sketchy. I mean if he thought so well of Bunting, why didn't he try to bring him in as an UFA that off-season?
- Tojo.

Maybe he did but Bunting chose CAR.

I loved Jake, but it didn't make sense to sign him for close to $10M / year for his thirties.

Don't discount that the pick they got for Jake turned into Brunicke.

He is most definitely tradeable. Not going to get a monster package for him but every other team sees what we see. A horribly coached and assembled team.

He won the Norris with +100 and the came to Pittsburgh and has been mediocre. I think there are a bunch of teams that would be in on him.
- MacPatty

Not with that contract..Pens will have to retain a lot and get little in return to have any chance. He is a defensive liability

Not with that contract..Pens will have to retain a lot and get little in return to have any chance. He is a defensive liability
- hfc355

Karlsson has a no move clause, he'll have to waive that first.

I don't expect much in a trade. Just looking for a pick or two. Highly unlikely it will be a one for one transaction.

Maybe he did but Bunting chose CAR.

I loved Jake, but it didn't make sense to sign him for close to $10M / year for his thirties.

Don't discount that the pick they got for Jake turned into Brunicke.
- MickV

I pretty much agree with this, but they could have done a better job at filling that spot.

Maybe he did but Bunting chose CAR.

I loved Jake, but it didn't make sense to sign him for close to $10M / year for his thirties.

Don't discount that the pick they got for Jake turned into Brunicke.
- MickV

They traded for Smith before free agency, but we had been discussing Bunting as a target on here before that. So just guessing but I don't think they tried

I'd have paid Jake and worried about it later myself. Might have been the wrong move, but I felt strongly they wouldn't compete this year without him.

I actually wonder if they would have gotten Brunicke two picks later and instead not had Howe. No way to know. But that is looking like a great pick as his stock is rising quickly.

That's Penguins hockey right there.

Perfect. This kind of meltdown should get a coach fired. 3 mindless plays in succession.