Yawn. I love the focus on Wallinder. They also took Niederbach and Cross Hanas in round 2. Both before Lohrei, Cuylle. But OK. Let's just be patient and see if Wallinder develops into a better player than Faber. Sounds familiar. Like how Cholowski, Lindstrom, Saarijarvi just needed more time. And before them it was Jurco, Pulkkinen, Frk, Ouellet, and Sproul who just needed more time to marinate.
- HockeyBuzzed

So your whole premise is you believe Lohrei & Cuylle are gonna turn the franchise around because they’ve played some games? Seriously, they’re just depth players at this point. You’re impatient and you want results, now, I get it, I guess.

You’re not gonna get it, you’re gonna have to be patient. The alternative is you can go cheer for a present successful team that’s already went through the pain the Wings are experiencing, and bypass the whole process they had to go through to get there.

Yes there’s been mistakes, there always is, no one has a perfect record with this sort of thing. But five years without a top three pick isn’t going to win you much without extreme amounts of luck, no matter how many depth guys you draft.

So your whole premise is you believe Lohrei & Cuylle are gonna turn the franchise around because they’ve played some games? Seriously, they’re just depth players at this point. You’re impatient and you want results, now, I get it, I guess.

You’re not gonna get it, you’re gonna have to be patient. The alternative is you can go cheer for a present successful team that’s already went through the pain the Wings are experiencing, and bypass the whole process they had to go through to get there.

Yes there’s been mistakes, there always is, no one has a perfect record with this sort of thing. But five years without a top three pick isn’t going to win you much without extreme amounts of luck, no matter how many depth guys you draft.
- DraftandDestroy

Never said these guys were difference makers. But they are legit NHL players, on cheap contracts. There is a cascade effect. Like if you draft Wyatt Johnson and Brock Faber, then you aren't wasting cap space on Copp and Holl. If you add a Lohrei or Cuylle then you don't waste assets acquiring Petry or signing Tarasenko. And maybe with some actual young talent on the roster, you can use some draft capital to maybe acquire a Logan Thompson in net, instead of 37-year old Cam Talbot. Maybe instead of wasting a trio of 2nd round picks you move up into the 1st round and find another difference maker. But when you accumulate all of this extra draft capital and then basically miss on all of it, you find yourself where we are now. Full of bad contracts. No 1C anywhere in the system. No cap space to the point that we're wasting 2nd round picks to move contracts out. But hey, you sound pleased with our direction. I'm spoiled and impatient. Got it.

Never said these guys were difference makers. But they are legit NHL players, on cheap contracts. There is a cascade effect. Like if you draft Wyatt Johnson and Brock Faber, then you aren't wasting cap space on Copp and Holl. If you add a Lohrei or Cuylle then you don't waste assets acquiring Petry or signing Tarasenko. And maybe with some actual young talent on the roster, you can use some draft capital to maybe acquire a Logan Thompson in net, instead of 37-year old Cam Talbot. Maybe instead of wasting a trio of 2nd round picks you move up into the 1st round and find another difference maker. But when you accumulate all of this extra draft capital and then basically miss on all of it, you find yourself where we are now. Full of bad contracts. No 1C anywhere in the system. No cap space to the point that we're wasting 2nd round picks to move contracts out. But hey, you sound pleased with our direction. I'm spoiled and impatient. Got it.
- HockeyBuzzed

Your expectations are unrealistic, no one is perfect at a draft, if you hit on two kids who make the NHL as full time NHL players you're considered to have a good draft. How many teams teams passed on Wyatt Johnston? He didn't even play hockey in his draft year, like a lot of other CHL kids because Covid shutdown the leagues. He was coming off a 30 point year, it was complete luck on their part.

They probably wouldn't have allowed Faber to make the team until next year so again, your point is lost. Cap space is only good if you're weaponizing it to take on bad contracts, other than that, who cares if they spend to the cap, it's not coming out of your pocket and they clearly value vets to insulate what kids are on the team, simply a stop-gap model. They aren't there so they can win a cup.

Never said these guys were difference makers. But they are legit NHL players, on cheap contracts. There is a cascade effect. Like if you draft Wyatt Johnson and Brock Faber, then you aren't wasting cap space on Copp and Holl. If you add a Lohrei or Cuylle then you don't waste assets acquiring Petry or signing Tarasenko. And maybe with some actual young talent on the roster, you can use some draft capital to maybe acquire a Logan Thompson in net, instead of 37-year old Cam Talbot. Maybe instead of wasting a trio of 2nd round picks you move up into the 1st round and find another difference maker. But when you accumulate all of this extra draft capital and then basically miss on all of it, you find yourself where we are now. Full of bad contracts. No 1C anywhere in the system. No cap space to the point that we're wasting 2nd round picks to move contracts out. But hey, you sound pleased with our direction. I'm spoiled and impatient. Got it.
- HockeyBuzzed

By the way, you are spoiled and impatient, they were NEVER going to turn the Wings into a contender five years into a rebuild. Simply unrealistic!! How many NHL teams have hired you for your expert opinion?

I'm not telling them, or you, what I think they should do, I'm telling you what I see them doing. I don't mind their patience at all. To me it looks like they're building from the blueline out, just look who they're drafting with high picks in rounds 1-2 and one 3rd from 2019 to 2023, it's mostly been big and or mobile defensemen with a sprinkle of Kasper, Danielson and Nygard as best player available.

2nd rnd Albert Johansson Defense -- shoots L 6.00 - 168
2nd rnd Antti Tuomisto Defense shoots R 6.05 - 210
1st rnd Moritz Seider Defense shoots R 6.03 - 205
2nd rnd William Wallinder Defense shoots L 6.04 - 205
3rd rnd Donovan Sebrango Defense shoots L 6.01 - 221
1st rnd Simon Edvinsson Defense -- shoots L 6.06 - 209
2nd rnd Shai Buium Defense -- shoots L 6.03 - 209
1st rnd Axel Sandin-Pellika Defense -- shoots R 5.11 - 176
2nd rnd Andrew Gibson Defense -- shoots R 6.03 - 210

By the way, you are spoiled and impatient, they were NEVER going to turn the Wings into a contender five years into a rebuild. Simply unrealistic!! How many NHL teams have hired you for your expert opinion?

I'm not telling them, or you, what I think they should do, I'm telling you what I see them doing. I don't mind their patience at all. To me it looks like they're building from the blueline out, just look who they're drafting with high picks in rounds 1-2 and one 3rd from 2019 to 2023, it's mostly been big and or mobile defensemen with a sprinkle of Kasper, Danielson and Nygard as best player available.

2nd rnd Albert Johansson Defense -- shoots L 6.00 - 168
2nd rnd Antti Tuomisto Defense shoots R 6.05 - 210
1st rnd Moritz Seider Defense shoots R 6.03 - 205
2nd rnd William Wallinder Defense shoots L 6.04 - 205
3rd rnd Donovan Sebrango Defense shoots L 6.01 - 221
1st rnd Simon Edvinsson Defense -- shoots L 6.06 - 209
2nd rnd Shai Buium Defense -- shoots L 6.03 - 209
1st rnd Axel Sandin-Pellika Defense -- shoots R 5.11 - 176
2nd rnd Andrew Gibson Defense -- shoots R 6.03 - 210
- DraftandDestroy

Nowhere did I say we should be a contender right now. On the contrary, I wish we were worse. Adding all of these overpriced vets just led us to be drafting 6th instead of 2nd, 8th instead of 3rd, 9th instead of 5th, 15th instead of 10th. We should be emerging from the rebuild now with 2 or 3 elite prospects - like a Fantilli, Michkov, etc...

Also, saying that if the Wings drafted Faber he still wouldn't be in the NHL is a way to lose a fair amount of credibility. He'd be on our top pair right now.

Finally, your list of d-men seems impressive, bit not to me. Sebrango and Gibson aren't even in the organization anymore. Tuomisto, Buium, Wallinder all showed promise but have regressed in my view. Fringe players at best. Johansson seems to be in the same camp. So we have Seider and Edvinsson, again, not hard to hit at #6. ASP is a nice asset. I like swinging for skill like that.

Overall, this rebuild has been botched and we likely need to bottom out again. Larkin will be 35+ when we contender again.

By the way, you are spoiled and impatient, they were NEVER going to turn the Wings into a contender five years into a rebuild. Simply unrealistic!! How many NHL teams have hired you for your expert opinion?

I'm not telling them, or you, what I think they should do, I'm telling you what I see them doing. I don't mind their patience at all. To me it looks like they're building from the blueline out, just look who they're drafting with high picks in rounds 1-2 and one 3rd from 2019 to 2023, it's mostly been big and or mobile defensemen with a sprinkle of Kasper, Danielson and Nygard as best player available.

2nd rnd Albert Johansson Defense -- shoots L 6.00 - 168
2nd rnd Antti Tuomisto Defense shoots R 6.05 - 210
1st rnd Moritz Seider Defense shoots R 6.03 - 205
2nd rnd William Wallinder Defense shoots L 6.04 - 205
3rd rnd Donovan Sebrango Defense shoots L 6.01 - 221
1st rnd Simon Edvinsson Defense -- shoots L 6.06 - 209
2nd rnd Shai Buium Defense -- shoots L 6.03 - 209
1st rnd Axel Sandin-Pellika Defense -- shoots R 5.11 - 176
2nd rnd Andrew Gibson Defense -- shoots R 6.03 - 210
- DraftandDestroy

you are sipping some serious Yzerman kool-aid.
The only blue chip prospect you have left in that group is Axel Sandin-Pellika now that Seider and Edvinsson are graduated.
Yzerman in 6 years has done a horrible job building this team, you can justify it all you want. This is the state of the roster after 6 years...Name one thing this team does well?

For me Yzerman has shown himself to be overrated. There's no Stamkos, Kucherov, etc. on this team which is what he walked into in Tampa.

It's been 6 years of this rebuild. But, I'm sure by your statements here you won't mind waiting another 6 maybe 10 years for this team to get out of the rebuild.

By the way, you are spoiled and impatient, they were NEVER going to turn the Wings into a contender five years into a rebuild. Simply unrealistic!! How many NHL teams have hired you for your expert opinion?

I'm not telling them, or you, what I think they should do, I'm telling you what I see them doing. I don't mind their patience at all. To me it looks like they're building from the blueline out, just look who they're drafting with high picks in rounds 1-2 and one 3rd from 2019 to 2023, it's mostly been big and or mobile defensemen with a sprinkle of Kasper, Danielson and Nygard as best player available.

2nd rnd Albert Johansson Defense -- shoots L 6.00 - 168
2nd rnd Antti Tuomisto Defense shoots R 6.05 - 210
1st rnd Moritz Seider Defense shoots R 6.03 - 205
2nd rnd William Wallinder Defense shoots L 6.04 - 205
3rd rnd Donovan Sebrango Defense shoots L 6.01 - 221
1st rnd Simon Edvinsson Defense -- shoots L 6.06 - 209
2nd rnd Shai Buium Defense -- shoots L 6.03 - 209
1st rnd Axel Sandin-Pellika Defense -- shoots R 5.11 - 176
2nd rnd Andrew Gibson Defense -- shoots R 6.03 - 210
- DraftandDestroy

Sebrango and Gibson are gone. If only they had taken Alexander Nikishin instead of Sebrango, Hanas, Niederbach or even Wallinder.

you are sipping some serious Yzerman kool-aid.
The only blue chip prospect you have left in that group is Axel Sandin-Pellika now that Seider and Edvinsson are graduated.
Yzerman in 6 years has done a horrible job building this team, you can justify it all you want. This is the state of the roster after 6 years...Name one thing this team does well?

For me Yzerman has shown himself to be overrated. There's no Stamkos, Kucherov, etc. on this team which is what he walked into in Tampa.

It's been 6 years of this rebuild. But, I'm sure by your statements here you won't mind waiting another 6 maybe 10 years for this team to get out of the rebuild.
- wingz4life

Yzerman drafted Kucherov....in the third round.

Sebrango and Gibson are gone. If only they had taken Alexander Nikishin instead of Sebrango, Hanas, Niederbach or even Wallinder.
- dcz28

Nikishin has played zero games. So it's basically the same as whoever we picked. Why don't you just wait and see if Wallinder and Buium end up better than him. I mean, Wallinder might already be better than Brock Faber but we like to take our time developing these guys. Signed, Drapes.

Yzerman drafted Kucherov....in the third round.
- todd3066

Did Yzerman actually draft him or was it the guy in charge of the draft? I think it's funny that people put the blame or make the GM a hero for drafting guys when the majority of the time it's the director of amateur scouting that makes the choices. Gm's might make a choice in the 1st round or make a choice when there is no consensus on which guy to draft among the team but the rest of the time they let the guy they hired make the choices.

Yzerman isn't without fault for sure on how this team is built or for hiring Draper in the first place but most of the blame or praise (mostly blame imo) on drafting is on Draper.

Nikishin has played zero games. So it's basically the same as whoever we picked. Why don't you just wait and see if Wallinder and Buium end up better than him. I mean, Wallinder might already be better than Brock Faber but we like to take our time developing these guys. Signed, Drapes.
- HockeyBuzzed

Nikishin has been lighting up the KHL for 2 years and is again so far this season. What's not to like about a 6'4, 215 pound defenseman that can skate, hit, fight, score and put up points that would make most fan happy if a forward was putting up these kind of points per season in that league.

I know you were being sarcastic because of the other guy and how high he seems to be on Wallinder.

you are sipping some serious Yzerman kool-aid.
The only blue chip prospect you have left in that group is Axel Sandin-Pellika now that Seider and Edvinsson are graduated.
Yzerman in 6 years has done a horrible job building this team, you can justify it all you want. This is the state of the roster after 6 years...Name one thing this team does well?

For me Yzerman has shown himself to be overrated. There's no Stamkos, Kucherov, etc. on this team which is what he walked into in Tampa.

It's been 6 years of this rebuild. But, I'm sure by your statements here you won't mind waiting another 6 maybe 10 years for this team to get out of the rebuild.
- wingz4life

The premise wasn't to show what an amazing stable of defensemen, if you actually read what I wrote, but rather, to show a pattern and what I see as a target in a building process. Building from the net out. Defensemen take longer to develop, they're seemingly building a group of young dmen to see what they get out of it.

I know you don't wanna hear this, but it takes a good 8-10 years to come out of a rebuild unless you draft a Crosby, MacKinnon or McDavid. They just don't come around every year. I don't know what Yzerman's true plans are, obviously there's been some bad moves made, but like I said yesterday, NJ has had two first overall picks and they missed the playoffs last year. It's been eight years since they took Hischier first overall.

There's no set timeline, it just takes as long as it takes.

Nowhere did I say we should be a contender right now. On the contrary, I wish we were worse. Adding all of these overpriced vets just led us to be drafting 6th instead of 2nd, 8th instead of 3rd, 9th instead of 5th, 15th instead of 10th. We should be emerging from the rebuild now with 2 or 3 elite prospects - like a Fantilli, Michkov, etc...

Also, saying that if the Wings drafted Faber he still wouldn't be in the NHL is a way to lose a fair amount of credibility. He'd be on our top pair right now.

Finally, your list of d-men seems impressive, bit not to me. Sebrango and Gibson aren't even in the organization anymore. Tuomisto, Buium, Wallinder all showed promise but have regressed in my view. Fringe players at best. Johansson seems to be in the same camp. So we have Seider and Edvinsson, again, not hard to hit at #6. ASP is a nice asset. I like swinging for skill like that.

Overall, this rebuild has been botched and we likely need to bottom out again. Larkin will be 35+ when we contender again.
- HockeyBuzzed

Again, it's not a list to show an amazing group of young defensemen, it's a list to show a pattern in building from the net out. And regarding Faber, it's conjecture on both of our parts, neither of us know how that would've played out in Detroit.

its a sad situation that this team is in now.
there is no datsyuk/zettberg coming to save them either. instead we are talking about william wallinder and annti tuomitso.

Again, it's not a list to show an amazing group of young defensemen, it's a list to show a pattern in building from the net out. And regarding Faber, it's conjecture on both of our parts, neither of us know how that would've played out in Detroit.
- DraftandDestroy

So because Yzerman decided to prioritize d-men, then this is evidence the rebuild is going well?? Everyone knows d-men tend to take longer. Anyone could see when he took over this was an organizational weakness. I'm glad he took a number of d-men. So maybe the draft strategy made sense. But it's a results business. The draft execution has been garbage. Free agency has been garbage. Cap management. Asset management. All terrible. But we get your point finally. Yzerman is building the defence first. And we should all just shut up because it's too early to tell what Wallinder and Co turn into...

So because Yzerman decided to prioritize d-men, then this is evidence the rebuild is going well?? Everyone knows d-men tend to take longer. Anyone could see when he took over this was an organizational weakness. I'm glad he took a number of d-men. So maybe the draft strategy made sense. But it's a results business. The draft execution has been garbage. Free agency has been garbage. Cap management. Asset management. All terrible. But we get your point finally. Yzerman is building the defence first. And we should all just shut up because it's too early to tell what Wallinder and Co turn into...
- HockeyBuzzed

he's serious too. counting on guys like Wallinder, Tuomitso, etc. to build this defense out!

Again, it's not a list to show an amazing group of young defensemen, it's a list to show a pattern in building from the net out. And regarding Faber, it's conjecture on both of our parts, neither of us know how that would've played out in Detroit.
- DraftandDestroy

I see your point, but Y using a prospect RD (2nd rnd Andrew Gibson Defense -- shoots R 6.03 - 210) to gain a 2nd and a prospect FORWARD, and then attach that pick to a very serviceable Walman for nothing but to get rid of the cap hit, defies your logic of "patiently building from the D out".

So because Yzerman decided to prioritize d-men, then this is evidence the rebuild is going well?? Everyone knows d-men tend to take longer. Anyone could see when he took over this was an organizational weakness. I'm glad he took a number of d-men. So maybe the draft strategy made sense. But it's a results business. The draft execution has been garbage. Free agency has been garbage. Cap management. Asset management. All terrible. But we get your point finally. Yzerman is building the defence first. And we should all just shut up because it's too early to tell what Wallinder and Co turn into...
- HockeyBuzzed

I would just say that rebuilding teams rarely get gems in the 2nd round and beyond that pan out ahead of a typical development cycle. Generally, the players that do are on an already established team, stacked with talent, and they can be brought in to compliment good players and there isn't pressure on them to be great. I'm sure if you put some of Det's developing players on a third line that is likely compatible with Detroit's current first line, they are going to get points.

You also have some rebuilding teams that ruin prospects. They are desperate to market them right away and put butts in the seats, and they aren't given time to develop confidence at the pro level. Some teams automatically put top 10 picks on the NHL squad at 18 years old and most of the time, it's a mistake.

Detroit didn't have the luck of drafting a Bedard, McDavid or Matthews. That's just the way things worked out. You could argue that taking Caufield, Cozens, Boldy or Zegras over Seider would have been better, but you'd be wrong. Detroit is better with Raymond at #4 than they would have been if they'd won the lottery in 2020 and taken Lafreniere. In 2021, there were 18 teams that passed on Johnston who started his career on a very good team. Edvinsson was a really good pick at #6 and he's just getting started. World class teams need world class goalies, you don't find them via trades. Cossa was the top goalie in the ECHL his first-year pro, you could have easily argued he was the best in the A last year, or right up there, and you could argue he's the top or right there, this year. Goalies take time and for this rebuild to be successful, they need a world class goalie. Both EDM and TOR would have won cups by now if they had elite goalies.

Since the 2019 rebuild, only three first rounders are on the team, and it's ridiculous to think their 2nd round and beyond picks should have been ready by now. Any draft beyond 2021 is worthless to talk about. They have a few players that could be home runs. ASP could be the QB world class teams need and Buchelnikov was just clocked at faster than any NHL player in the league. Who knows if he becomes a star, it's too early to tell.

I would just say that rebuilding teams rarely get gems in the 2nd round and beyond that pan out ahead of a typical development cycle. Generally, the players that do are on an already established team, stacked with talent, and they can be brought in to compliment good players and there isn't pressure on them to be great. I'm sure if you put some of Det's developing players on a third line that is likely compatible with Detroit's current first line, they are going to get points.

You also have some rebuilding teams that ruin prospects. They are desperate to market them right away and put butts in the seats, and they aren't given time to develop confidence at the pro level. Some teams automatically put top 10 picks on the NHL squad at 18 years old and most of the time, it's a mistake.

Detroit didn't have the luck of drafting a Bedard, McDavid or Matthews. That's just the way things worked out. You could argue that taking Caufield, Cozens, Boldy or Zegras over Seider would have been better, but you'd be wrong. Detroit is better with Raymond at #4 than they would have been if they'd won the lottery in 2020 and taken Lafreniere. In 2021, there were 18 teams that passed on Johnston who started his career on a very good team. Edvinsson was a really good pick at #6 and he's just getting started. World class teams need world class goalies, you don't find them via trades. Cossa was the top goalie in the ECHL his first-year pro, you could have easily argued he was the best in the A last year, or right up there, and you could argue he's the top or right there, this year. Goalies take time and for this rebuild to be successful, they need a world class goalie. Both EDM and TOR would have won cups by now if they had elite goalies.

Since the 2019 rebuild, only three first rounders are on the team, and it's ridiculous to think their 2nd round and beyond picks should have been ready by now. Any draft beyond 2021 is worthless to talk about. They have a few players that could be home runs. ASP could be the QB world class teams need and Buchelnikov was just clocked at faster than any NHL player in the league. Who knows if he becomes a star, it's too early to tell.
- bluelineenforcer

Rebuilding teams don't find gems after round 1? Huh? There are organizations who seem to find good NHL talent outside of round 1 far more often than others. This is not by accident and has nothing to do with whether they are rebuilding or not. I already highlighted Dallas who found guys like Robertson, Hintz, Lindell, Stankoven in later rounds. They are excellent at the draft. Los Angeles seems to find d-men outside of round 1 on a regular basis...Cernak, Spence, Roy, Mikey Anderson. New Jersey always seems to find late talent, some still on the roster and others moved via trade...Bratt in round 6, Sharongovich in 5, Zetterlund. Tampa, Carolina, Nashville all draft well. We dont draft well. Fixing that should be the top organizational priority.

Dear friends and foes. It’s tough to see the Wings play like this ( and joyous for those that love to see us fail ). If the callout of Larkin doesn’t work, it clearly is Lalonde’s head that will be chopped.

Regarding the drafting comments and dialog. The one thing that hasn’t been discussed is Yzerman’s strategy to draft a sure bet solid person, rather than a win big/lose big person. Seems like Kasper and Danielson fit that best. I just wish our draft strategy would yield a Brayden Point or a Brandon Hagel. I’m not even going to say Kutcherov. I’d like to dream that we change our strategy next year with someone who can put the puck in the net.

This team has the talent to play over .500, but Lalonde’s system isn’t clicking. Our stars aren’t outperforming. We will not win playing “cute” hockey. Edvinsson plays a little too cute, when we need our D to be blocking shots and making it so hard to get quality shots and chances. To me, this is a coaching problem with getting buy-in. I just don’t think Lalonde is an NHL coach. Nice guys finish last.