To add to your analysis of style of play and your post, the problem with the Leafs core players is not that they don't care (not saying you said that), it's that they care too much. The way the fans and the media react, they are absolutely petrified to make a mistake and they care so much about letting everybody down, that they can't play loose and can't play their best hockey.

The coach and/or the player that breaks that spell will be the one with the most playoff success. I think this is part of the reason why Nylander seems to have gone from sucking in the playoffs to playing better than expected. He's the one guy of the bunch that seems like he's brave enough to risk failure to achieve success because he has the correct amount of "I don't give a (frank)".

Think of Batman trying to escape the pit prison in The Dark Knight Rises. You can't climb to the top until you untie the rope and accept your fate if you fall without it. With Marner being a pending UFA, that might be the moment where he says "(frank) it, nothing to lose now".


- Rare_Jewel

It's a tough market. And it's a tough market to go all-in for. Marner is not a fairly risk averse player - he tries passes most players won't. He tries to make moves or plays that most players won't. When it works, he's Magic Mitch. When it doesn't, the entire Toronto fanbase comes down on him like the sky on Chicken Little.

Matthews is a very controlled player who keeps his emotions largely in check - but he needs to learn to play with a bit more bite, let the emotion fuel him a bit more and just take over shifts. We've all seen him do it.

I agree about Nylander - the one thing about Nylander, as every coach and GM has said, there's no one on this planet who believes more in William Nylander than William Nylander. That sheer scope of self-belief fuels a confidence you need at all times - and I think it keeps you from getting too low when things are low.

With Mitch, I'm not sure if it's an aversion to the risk - it could be literally physical limitations (just not that strong and big - and maybe he has one of those bodies that just doesn't put on muscle - he's said so previously), but I tend to think that it's a level of will. He has been, in my opinion, mostly effective in the playoff and some recent playoff woes have changed a lot of people's opinion of him. I think he was hurt in the Florida series and his performance plummeted then. I think last year against Boston he went in hurt and then was further hurt in the series.

In both cases he was playing, but I don't know if he has or will be able to develop that will to play through the pain like many NHL'ers do. And I say this while defending him but recognizing that I think this is the specific gear he's lacked.

As soon as playoff Marner = or > regular season Marner sure but agree right now he’s playing very well.
- Cush29

Does the same go for matthews as well?
Cause theyve both only had one dominant playoff series in the past 8 years.

To add to your analysis of style of play and your post, the problem with the Leafs core players is not that they don't care (not saying you said that), it's that they care too much. The way the fans and the media react, they are absolutely petrified to make a mistake and they care so much about letting everybody down, that they can't play loose and can't play their best hockey.

The coach and/or the player that breaks that spell will be the one with the most playoff success. I think this is part of the reason why Nylander seems to have gone from sucking in the playoffs to playing better than expected. He's the one guy of the bunch that seems like he's brave enough to risk failure to achieve success because he has the correct amount of "I don't give a (frank)".

Think of Batman trying to escape the pit prison in The Dark Knight Rises. You can't climb to the top until you untie the rope and accept your fate if you fall without it. With Marner being a pending UFA, that might be the moment where he says "(frank) it, nothing to lose now".


- Rare_Jewel

Im sorry, but i just cant buy into this "they care too much" and that is why they havent found success in 8 years.
Its not about caring, its simply their regular season style of play doesnt translate to playoff style of play. They have much less room out there, specially against teams whove had success before and know what it takes. Also our core players havent been gamers in elimination games, except for maybe nylander.
Berube is trying to change that style of play, its slowly working. Will it bring immediate success in the playoffs, dunno we'll see.
But "caring too much"?....not the main reason if a reason at all. Nerves sure.
Imo.

Im sorry, but i just cant buy into this "they care too much" and that is why they havent found success in 8 years.
Its not about caring, its simply their regular season style of play doesnt translate to playoff style of play. They have much less room out there, specially against teams whove had success before and know what it takes. Also our core players havent been gamers in elimination games, except for maybe nylander.
Berube is trying to change that style of play, its slowly working. Will it bring immediate success in the playoffs, dunno we'll see.
But "caring too much"?....not the main reason if a reason at all. Nerves sure.
Imo.
- Fakepartofme

I think it's a combination of both things. Absolutely the team's style emphasizes too strongly on possession - but at times in the playoffs you're better of just to dispossess yourself of the puck, because you're in trouble. The other thing you mention, and it's very true - the Leafs' broader offensive style was to spread out the ice, making defenders have to spread out more - it's more of a soccer strategy - but in hockey with a smaller surface and much smaller net, I need to get the puck in a scoring area. As a defending team I can stay in formation protecting the core danger area and not care if you're spreading out - and wait for someone to miss the puck or try something risky - and because you're spread to the edges of the ice, often I can spring an odd-man break.

That said, I don't think Paul MacLean's assessment of the team needing to beat its own demons as well as the opposition is unfair. At some point the looming spectre of defeat and the weight of the Toronto fans' expectations and the media is omnipresent for a lot of these guys. The idea that it's solely a fear of failure isn't accurate - I think the style they are presently working on is a good solid hockey foundation. If they can consistently effect that style, I think we'll see more success.

We saw Keefe and Dubas talk about reinventing or re-envisioning hockey and the way we look at it, play it and so on - for years. I recall Keefe talking about watching all sorts of sports to look at strategies - like Rugby, Soccer - and so on - but most of the things there don't translate in the same way. As an example, regrouping - which was taken as a strategy into hockey from soccer (by Europeans coming over mostly) is relatively new to hockey (like 40 years-ish). When I was a kid in the 70's the puck moved forward. It wasn't a rule, it was a principle of hockey that I was taught. Like you could pass the puck around in the offensive zone from the corner to the blue line, but if you had the puck in the neutral zone you skated towards the O-Zone, not put the puck back into your own end!

So yes, there are strategies you can adopt, but most of that heavy lifting has been done already before Keefe and Dubas arrived. Sometimes simple works.

Personally I am a fan of hybrid play - which I am seeing a lot more of from Berube than I was led to believe. There's a lot of possession and puck control. There are line changes with puck possession. The dump-ins that are a staple of his attack aren't the only thing - but they are used when a clear lane into the zone isn't available (as is truthfully sensible).

All of that blather is to say that I think the Leafs have to both play hockey honestly - as you suggest - but also they have to overcome the various issues that mentally are a challenge in this market - as is also suggested.

Tom Petty is one of those guys, everybody loves him. I never met anyone who hates his music and I hope to God I never do.
- Zezel

I saw Bob Dylan, backed by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, at the CNE in 1988.

Bob and Tom were absolutely wasted, and didn't give two poops about the audience.

Let's just say that neither of them were in my good books for a long, long time.

P.S. I've tried several times to find a concert review. Maybe I'll frank around this morning and try again.

In Vancouver for kids tournament

0-3 so far 🤨

Playing for 7th place 🎀 at noon 🤣

Cover song of the week. A bluegrass standard by a little bar band from Florida called Mudcrutch.



- winsix

In ~ 1985 Neil Young ripped the hearts out of the US south by making bluegrass his own. Get back to the country ...

I saw Bob Dylan, backed by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, at the CNE in 1988.

Bob and Tom were absolutely wasted, and didn't give two poops about the audience.

Let's just say that neither of them were in my good books for a long, long time.

P.S. I've tried several times to find a concert review. Maybe I'll frank around this morning and try again.
- Atomic Wedgie

I mean, what great rock band hasn't blown a show hammered. That's rock n roll, nerd!

I saw Bob Dylan, backed by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, at the CNE in 1988.

Bob and Tom were absolutely wasted, and didn't give two poops about the audience.

Let's just say that neither of them were in my good books for a long, long time.

P.S. I've tried several times to find a concert review. Maybe I'll frank around this morning and try again.
- Atomic Wedgie

My apologies to Tom Petty. It appears I may be misremembering (seems like a weird thing for me to get confused about).

Tom Petty toured with Dylan in 1986. No Toronto concert.

Dylan played Toronto on August 29, 1988. This would be the one I attended.

Here's the review in the Toronto Star (and keep in mind I have to retype it):

Toronto Star - 30 August 1988 - p D2

Dylan shocks audience out of confusion

By Greg Quill, Toronto Star

You can never second guess Bob Dylan.

That, and his inability after all these years to start and finish a song with a modicum of style, are about the only things of which Dylan fans and students can be reasonably sure.

Last night at the CNE Grandstand, the man whose songs in the mid-1960s actually changed the way the world still thinks about fundamental issues like war and racism, politics, personal freedom, love, our responsibilities to each other and perhaps our very destiny, started out by throwing away some of his best work.

Fronting a dull three-piece band that might have been picked up at some roadhouse in northern Minnesota, and dressed in a natty dark suit, white shirt and tie, Dylan made nonsense of "Subterrainean Homesick Blues:, "Sweet Marie", "Masters of War", and "A Simple Twist of Fate" by racing through them at brakeneck speed, pinning them to basic rock 'n' roll tempos and bellowing out their lyrics apparently without respect for the 10,000 or so people who'd turned out to see him.

It was awful. These were some of Dylan's finest recorded pieces, bled of every trace of emotional power, of drama, even of logic. Unimaginative solos by an unnamed guitarist, clearly insensitive to the pieces on which he laid his grubby hands, merely filled the space between verses with absurd barroom cliches. Each song rolled out of a humble of chords and ended with big, silly flourishes that obliterated whatever faint original flavor still lingered.

"Any true Dylan fan would forgive him for this," a man nearby said in a thick northern English accent. "We've been through everything with him."

Still, he seemed not to recognize "Shelter from the Storm", rendered in a hoarse, syncopated shout over a rapid, hokey two-four, until the end of the first verse.

He was not alone. The audience of Dylan fans from the 1960s, folk music fans from the 1960s, folk music fans from an earlier generation and the young and curious, drawn perhaps by the songwriter's weighty reputation (although he hasn't had a hit record in more than a decade), was confused and static mid-way through the show.

- - - - - - - - - -

Review goes on to say it got a little better, but I'm too tired to keep typing.

I looked it up through the Toronto Public Library database, so it's converted microfiche of the newspaper - so you see it exactly how it was laid out.

Some other fun poop from the same page:

Rita Zekas' Star gazing column. Second City celebrated its 15th anniversary with a big blowout party.

Michael Jackson turned 30.

And there were ads for Man of La Mancha, starring Hal LInden at the O'Keefe Centre, and of course an ad for the Mousetrap at the Toronto Truck Theatre.

From the Hockey News:

Max Pacioretty's return to the Toronto Maple Leafs' lineup appears uncertain following his departure from Saturday's 4-1 victory against the Montreal Canadiens due to a lower-body injury.

TSN insider Darren Dreger, speaking on 'First Up' with Aaron Korolnek and Carlo Colaiacovo, provided an update on Pacioretty's condition:

"Sad for Pacioretty, it's extensive," Dreger said. "Nobody's going to disclose the specifics of the injury. I think we could all see that he was grabbing the back of his leg, upper leg, right? When he went down on the ice, we saw him get helped off the ice. I think we'll hear more about that today."

From the Hockey News:

Max Pacioretty's return to the Toronto Maple Leafs' lineup appears uncertain following his departure from Saturday's 4-1 victory against the Montreal Canadiens due to a lower-body injury.

TSN insider Darren Dreger, speaking on 'First Up' with Aaron Korolnek and Carlo Colaiacovo, provided an update on Pacioretty's condition:

"Sad for Pacioretty, it's extensive," Dreger said. "Nobody's going to disclose the specifics of the injury. I think we could all see that he was grabbing the back of his leg, upper leg, right? When he went down on the ice, we saw him get helped off the ice. I think we'll hear more about that today."
- Atomic Wedgie

I also saw a thing that said his injury is minor. Gotta feed the content hopper!

From the Hockey News:

Max Pacioretty's return to the Toronto Maple Leafs' lineup appears uncertain following his departure from Saturday's 4-1 victory against the Montreal Canadiens due to a lower-body injury.

TSN insider Darren Dreger, speaking on 'First Up' with Aaron Korolnek and Carlo Colaiacovo, provided an update on Pacioretty's condition:

"Sad for Pacioretty, it's extensive," Dreger said. "Nobody's going to disclose the specifics of the injury. I think we could all see that he was grabbing the back of his leg, upper leg, right? When he went down on the ice, we saw him get helped off the ice. I think we'll hear more about that today."
- Atomic Wedgie

RIP

RIP
- AdamFrench

I heard his widow wants him to be buried in his Leafs jersey, NOT his Habs jersey.

I heard his widow wants him to be buried in his Leafs jersey, NOT his Habs jersey.
- Atomic Wedgie

Who will come to the aid of the widow's son?

Who will come to the aid of the widow's son?
- GalacticStone

Scabeh

AA sighting

Akhtyamov has looked tremendous with the Marlies. Akhtyamov entered the weekend with a 4-0-0 record with a shutout and a .941 save percentage – eerily similar to his 2022-23 season back home. All three of Toronto’s goalies – including Dennis Hildeby and Matt Murray – have looked good for the red-hot Marlies this year. But, perhaps by pure luck thanks to Hildeby starting in the NHL, Akhtyamov might have won the No. 1A goalie duties because of just how good he looked early on.

From the Hockey News:

Max Pacioretty's return to the Toronto Maple Leafs' lineup appears uncertain following his departure from Saturday's 4-1 victory against the Montreal Canadiens due to a lower-body injury.

TSN insider Darren Dreger, speaking on 'First Up' with Aaron Korolnek and Carlo Colaiacovo, provided an update on Pacioretty's condition:

"Sad for Pacioretty, it's extensive," Dreger said. "Nobody's going to disclose the specifics of the injury. I think we could all see that he was grabbing the back of his leg, upper leg, right? When he went down on the ice, we saw him get helped off the ice. I think we'll hear more about that today."
- Atomic Wedgie

I cannot believe it.

Scabeh
- AdamFrench

I have enough of my kids to take care of!

From the Hockey News:

Max Pacioretty's return to the Toronto Maple Leafs' lineup appears uncertain following his departure from Saturday's 4-1 victory against the Montreal Canadiens due to a lower-body injury.

TSN insider Darren Dreger, speaking on 'First Up' with Aaron Korolnek and Carlo Colaiacovo, provided an update on Pacioretty's condition:

"Sad for Pacioretty, it's extensive," Dreger said. "Nobody's going to disclose the specifics of the injury. I think we could all see that he was grabbing the back of his leg, upper leg, right? When he went down on the ice, we saw him get helped off the ice. I think we'll hear more about that today."
- Atomic Wedgie

He’s on IR which opens up a roster spot. Speculation is hamstring. If it’s pulled, maybe 2-3 weeks. If it’s torn, it’s much longer

I also saw a thing that said his injury is minor. Gotta feed the content hopper!
- Zezel

I saw week to week on the score app, so who knows.

He’s on IR which opens up a roster spot. Speculation is hamstring. If it’s pulled, maybe 2-3 weeks. If it’s torn, it’s much longer
- Canada Cup

If it was torn, he’d be on LTIR.

If it was torn, he’d be on LTIR.
- Atomic Wedgie

Yeah, Berube just said a couple of weeks. Also, Jarnkrok suffered a setback and is going to NY to see specialist.

Yeah, Berube just said a couple of weeks. Also, Jarnkrok suffered a setback and is going to NY to see specialist.
- Canada Cup

Jarnkrok is not worth having on LTIR for a long period of time.

He’s on IR which opens up a roster spot. Speculation is hamstring. If it’s pulled, maybe 2-3 weeks. If it’s torn, it’s much longer
- Canada Cup

Dak Prescotts was a pretty nasty tear and he was given 6-8 week timeline, opted for season ending surgery.

Much more runway in hockey for 6-8 weeks than the football season. Max is so GD fragile though, how much can you put your body through...