Can we trade Karlsson already? He would be an addition by subtraction for this team.

The next one as in the top prospect of ours in the system. Many on here mused about him being on the top line this year. Dubas hyped him up about being close to ready for prime time.

He showed some promise but has had an awful start in WBS... Saying he is struggling isn't a crazy narrative when he has 1 assist and a -5 in 7 games. It's just a fact.
- MacPatty

"Saying he's struggling isn't a crazy narrative"? what? You never said that. You said that "we" had anointed him the next one, when not a single person around here did, and that he has completely fallen apart in 7 games. Those are both bat sh!t crazy narratives. When Sid went 5 games this season with only one assist and was a -6 was he completely falling apart to you?

McG was -4 after like the first two or three games games, two games or three in which he was on 3rd line and the coach said it was a mistake to do so. Coach also say he's been playing great and really believes the goals will start coming. We shall see. Obviously we would all like to see a bit more to start. For a prospect of his ilk you want to see at least a point per game production, but there is still time....lots and lots of time....

"Saying he's struggling isn't a crazy narrative"? what? You never said that. You said that "we" had anointed him the next one, when not a single person around here did, and that he has completely fallen apart in 7 games. Those are both bat sh!t crazy narratives. When Sid went 5 games this season with only one assist and was a -6 was he completely falling apart to you?

McG was -4 after like the first two or three games games, two games or three in which he was on 3rd line and the coach said it was a mistake to do so. Coach also say he's been playing great and really believes the goals will start coming. We shall see. Obviously we would all like to see a bit more to start. For a prospect of his ilk you want to see at least a point per game production, but there is still time....lots and lots of time....
- MattStrat

Matt, why do you get so fired up over everything?

Fact - many people on here were musing on whether or not McGroarty would be in Jake's spot on the top line early in the year. He was also heralded as our top prospect when we traded for him. Dubas said he expected him to contribute in the NHL in the short run (this season).

Fact - he was pretty ok in camp and the preseason and he has been bad in the AHL. Is "falling apart" too strong of a choice of words... maybe? But I'm not wrong that in this short sample he has gone from the fringe of being in the NHL to struggling in the AHL. I'd have less of a strong opinion if he didn't force his way out of Winnipeg because they wouldn't guarantee him an NHL spot.

I may have some bias because I loved Yager and thought it was a terrible trade, but these are not narratives, these are facts.

Can we trade Karlsson already? He would be an addition by subtraction for this team.
- 123Kid

I think its best for all parties at this point. Probably an optics problem for Dubas though... we aren't going to be able to get a good package for him, and he is going to go to a team that is competing and light it up.

I don't know if Dubas is ready to accept that egg on his face yet. And if we are at this point, is everyone coming around to accept that this was in fact a bad trade? We'd have Granlund, Petry & Rutta coming off the board next year and we would have had our 1st round pick still last year. We would still suck but we aren't much better off than SJ right now and I think those 3 guys at the deadline (plus that 1st) are worth a hell of a lot more than what we could get for Karlsson now.

I think its best for all parties at this point. Probably an optics problem for Dubas though... we aren't going to be able to get a good package for him, and he is going to go to a team that is competing and light it up.

I don't know if Dubas is ready to accept that egg on his face yet. And if we are at this point, is everyone coming around to accept that this was in fact a bad trade? We'd have Granlund, Petry & Rutta coming off the board next year and we would have had our 1st round pick still last year. We would still suck but we aren't much better off than SJ right now and I think those 3 guys at the deadline (plus that 1st) are worth a hell of a lot more than what we could get for Karlsson now.
- MacPatty

These guys are pros. You just go to him and say I know you want to chase a Cup, this isn't working as planned, but I can't move you to a contender unless you up your game from now until the TDL. If you do that, I promise I'll work hard to do what's best for you and this organization. Not that complicated.

sheesh

These guys are pros. You just go to him and say I know you want to chase a Cup, this isn't working as planned, but I can't move you to a contender unless you up your game from now until the TDL. If you do that, I promise I'll work hard to do what's best for you and this organization. Not that complicated.
- MickV

Agreed.

Didn't know that Sid broke the all time faceoff wins record last night until 2 mins ago...

Matt, why do you get so fired up over everything?

Fact - many people on here were musing on whether or not McGroarty would be in Jake's spot on the top line early in the year. He was also heralded as our top prospect when we traded for him. Dubas said he expected him to contribute in the NHL in the short run (this season).

Fact - he was pretty ok in camp and the preseason and he has been bad in the AHL. Is "falling apart" too strong of a choice of words... maybe? But I'm not wrong that in this short sample he has gone from the fringe of being in the NHL to struggling in the AHL. I'd have less of a strong opinion if he didn't force his way out of Winnipeg because they wouldn't guarantee him an NHL spot.

I may have some bias because I loved Yager and thought it was a terrible trade, but these are not narratives, these are facts.
- MacPatty

Fired up? Over everything? because I respond with a lot of words? You're like gaslighting and projecting on the regular, man, and now this is the second time in a row you're basically changing what you're saying regarding the same thing.

As for AHL production, in this very, very early season when a lot of teams have played less than 10 games, there are around 45 players at a point per game, or better. Only two of those guys were drafted less than 4 years ago. The top 5 scorers right now were drafted 13, 10, 9, 5 and 9 years ago respectfully. Its completely dramatic to get on like you are about McG when he's only played 7 pro games hahaha but maybe that's to be expected when you had a full on rager for Yager....

I wonder if Rod just runs the same pre game from 4 years ago against the pens? It’s gotten to the point they could probably just skip their pre game entirely. No preparation needed. The Canes know the Pens system better than they do.

Calm down lads, and remember what's really important: The Flyers haven't won the Cup since 1975.

sheesh
- BINGO!

Double sheesh

I wonder if Rod just runs the same pre game from 4 years ago against the pens? It’s gotten to the point they could probably just skip their pre game entirely. No preparation needed. The Canes know the Pens system better than they do.
- Thorny87

It's not just Carolina. I've been saying this for years. The league in general knows exactly what the Pens do. No surprises. No adjustments. Sully just does his system by numbers playbook. It should be embarrassing for him. I've seen week old roadkill look better than the Penguins after games with Carolina.

These guys are pros. You just go to him and say I know you want to chase a Cup, this isn't working as planned, but I can't move you to a contender unless you up your game from now until the TDL. If you do that, I promise I'll work hard to do what's best for you and this organization. Not that complicated.
- MickV

Agree. Dubas doesn't have to admit anything other than the team isn't going anywhere. This is the trade I could see them eating salary on this year if I had to pick one.

Matt, why do you get so fired up over everything?

Fact - many people on here were musing on whether or not McGroarty would be in Jake's spot on the top line early in the year. He was also heralded as our top prospect when we traded for him. Dubas said he expected him to contribute in the NHL in the short run (this season).

Fact - he was pretty ok in camp and the preseason and he has been bad in the AHL. Is "falling apart" too strong of a choice of words... maybe? But I'm not wrong that in this short sample he has gone from the fringe of being in the NHL to struggling in the AHL. I'd have less of a strong opinion if he didn't force his way out of Winnipeg because they wouldn't guarantee him an NHL spot.

I may have some bias because I loved Yager and thought it was a terrible trade, but these are not narratives, these are facts.
- MacPatty

The big difference is between musing and annointing. Most of us didn't know McGroarty well besides he was higher rated than Yager and a year older. I know I was hoping he'd earn a third line spot and work his way up during the year, but I also wasn't counting on it.

I think it's too early to panic, but I'll agree it's a disappointing start. Your concerns about it not working out I think are fair. McGroarty wasn't rated that much higher and a RS center is pretty valuable if Yager works out.

No contender is adding Karlson. He’s not a winning hockey player.

I could see a few teams interested in the potential of Karlsson.

Toronto and Ottawa had previous interest in trading for him with the rumors last season. I would probably throw someone like the Rangers in the mix because if they could unload Trouba they would try to make a deal. I think Detroit could have some interest as well. I don't think Seattle will be buyers at this point.

Possible players coming back if we did a deal:

Norris from Ottawa (a younger center talent and probably a cap dump in a deal if we traded with Ottawa).



Robertson from Toronto: I assume Toronto would have a 3rd team retain Cap of Karlsson in a deal, but I could see Dubas going after Robertson and maybe Timmons in a deal due to his comfort level with the players.


Trouba from New york Rangers: We all know him he isn't very good currently then again either is Karlsson. If they can get a 3rd team to retain cap space or send us someone else in the deal costing 2 million in cap space (Kakko or Schneider). Maybe they could also do a LTIR as well to get some cap space to take on Karlsson. I could see NYR as the least likely spot since they lack Draft picks.

Detroit I could see being bigger players and maybe trading picks prospects and maybe a big push to get Karlsson to strengthen their 2nd pairing w/ Chiarot. Detroit did also have rumored interest in Jarry in the offseason. Maybe a package deal with a 3rd team retaining cap space. Detroit has 14.5 million in projected cap space for the deadline currently. Maybe they can make a deal and help us get ready for a hopeful aggressive offseason (if we free up additional cap space).

Outside idea if Anaheim is the 3rd team involved for retaining cap on Karlsson I could see Zegras being an interesting name for us. A younger talent who could be talent they try to build around on the 2nd line. He is also someone who they could market as the future of the team

I could see a few teams interested in the potential of Karlsson.

Toronto and Ottawa had previous interest in trading for him with the rumors last season. I would probably throw someone like the Rangers in the mix because if they could unload Trouba they would try to make a deal. I think Detroit could have some interest as well. I don't think Seattle will be buyers at this point.

Possible players coming back if we did a deal:

Norris from Ottawa (a younger center talent and probably a cap dump in a deal if we traded with Ottawa).



Robertson from Toronto: I assume Toronto would have a 3rd team retain Cap of Karlsson in a deal, but I could see Dubas going after Robertson and maybe Timmons in a deal due to his comfort level with the players.


Trouba from New york Rangers: We all know him he isn't very good currently then again either is Karlsson. If they can get a 3rd team to retain cap space or send us someone else in the deal costing 2 million in cap space (Kakko or Schneider). Maybe they could also do a LTIR as well to get some cap space to take on Karlsson. I could see NYR as the least likely spot since they lack Draft picks.

Detroit I could see being bigger players and maybe trading picks prospects and maybe a big push to get Karlsson to strengthen their 2nd pairing w/ Chiarot. Detroit did also have rumored interest in Jarry in the offseason. Maybe a package deal with a 3rd team retaining cap space. Detroit has 14.5 million in projected cap space for the deadline currently. Maybe they can make a deal and help us get ready for a hopeful aggressive offseason (if we free up additional cap space).

Outside idea if Anaheim is the 3rd team involved for retaining cap on Karlsson I could see Zegras being an interesting name for us. A younger talent who could be talent they try to build around on the 2nd line. He is also someone who they could market as the future of the team
- 123Kid

Trouba>Karlson.

I find it amusing that for quite some time RW wrote about how bad it is to sign defensive type players. Now that we are a poor defensive team, maybe the worst in the league, this type of hockey is unacceptable.

To be fair, many on here agreed with that mentality.

t's comical sullivan refused to play reaves because he didn't play defensive hockey...And yet he plays a "True dmen" 15-20 minutes a game, That can't even play his own dam position?

FIRE SULLIVAN ALREADY..AND TAKE GM DUFUS WITH HIM..


READ THIS:

Tim Benz: If you didn't like Erik Karlsson's performance in Carolina, you're going to hate his own analysis of it

I find it amusing that for quite some time RW wrote about how bad it is to sign defensive type players. Now that we are a poor defensive team, maybe the worst in the league, this type of hockey is unacceptable.

To be fair, many on here agreed with that mentality.
- Thunderbolt

No, I think the people you're referring to, myself included, wanted good defensive players that could also provide some decent depth scoring.

I could see a few teams interested in the potential of Karlsson.

Toronto and Ottawa had previous interest in trading for him with the rumors last season. I would probably throw someone like the Rangers in the mix because if they could unload Trouba they would try to make a deal. I think Detroit could have some interest as well. I don't think Seattle will be buyers at this point.

Possible players coming back if we did a deal:

Norris from Ottawa (a younger center talent and probably a cap dump in a deal if we traded with Ottawa).



Robertson from Toronto: I assume Toronto would have a 3rd team retain Cap of Karlsson in a deal, but I could see Dubas going after Robertson and maybe Timmons in a deal due to his comfort level with the players.


Trouba from New york Rangers: We all know him he isn't very good currently then again either is Karlsson. If they can get a 3rd team to retain cap space or send us someone else in the deal costing 2 million in cap space (Kakko or Schneider). Maybe they could also do a LTIR as well to get some cap space to take on Karlsson. I could see NYR as the least likely spot since they lack Draft picks.

Detroit I could see being bigger players and maybe trading picks prospects and maybe a big push to get Karlsson to strengthen their 2nd pairing w/ Chiarot. Detroit did also have rumored interest in Jarry in the offseason. Maybe a package deal with a 3rd team retaining cap space. Detroit has 14.5 million in projected cap space for the deadline currently. Maybe they can make a deal and help us get ready for a hopeful aggressive offseason (if we free up additional cap space).

Outside idea if Anaheim is the 3rd team involved for retaining cap on Karlsson I could see Zegras being an interesting name for us. A younger talent who could be talent they try to build around on the 2nd line. He is also someone who they could market as the future of the team
- 123Kid

I think you have the right teams that would be in play.

Rangers - I've never even considered they might be interested, mostly because the have Fox to run the PP. Karlsson for Trouba would be interesting, Id like to think we could get a little sweetener also.

Toronto - only makes a play for Karlsson if they trade Marner. Dubas overpaid him once, entirely possible he is willing to do it again.

Ottawa - I proposed Karlsson for Norris in the offseason. Maybe you can go really big and trade Karlsson and Pettersson for Chabot, Jensen ++

Anaheim - I also think Karlsson fills a big hole for them. I've never been a big Zegras fan but at this point, might as well. Anaheim could take his full salary with nothing going back, so that is especially interesting. I just dont think they have any real need to do the deal.

Two more I think could happen:

Montreal - they need a top 4 RD and Karlsson could help them out with their PP. They have young guys but they arent going to be able to keep all of them. Id love to get Mailloux and we could take back a bad contract like Anderson to make the cap work. They have a lot of young talent and need to start turning the corner.

Utah - Only because they have two RD who are injured, but also because I think they are going to want some more star power there. They are going to be competing for a playoff spot but are down their top two RD. Could see us flipping Karlsson for Marino +, Utah has the cap space to get it done and I think we can be better with Marino and $5M in cap space than we are with Karlsson.

I find it amusing that for quite some time RW wrote about how bad it is to sign defensive type players. Now that we are a poor defensive team, maybe the worst in the league, this type of hockey is unacceptable.

To be fair, many on here agreed with that mentality.
- Thunderbolt

No, I think the people you're referring to, myself included, wanted good defensive players that could also provide some decent depth scoring. A lot of seasons we had players in bottom 6 that weren't good defensively, always pinned in own zone, and also couldn't score haha. The line with Bluey, ZAR and Tanev I really liked... They didn't score much but they shut the other teams lines down very well.

A while ago I wrote this team will go thru a major transformation in the next year and a half.

One thing was Jarry needs to go. His trade value isn't very high. The thing is now that we have seen Ned and Bloom struggle behind this defense, Jarry's value isn't nearly as bad as we once thought. If anything, it has gone up.

Second, I had Karlsson and Pettersson being traded this season. Pettersson is a no brainer, his contract is up. He will bring one of the best returns we can hope for. Now that Karlsson has played himself into a position where people here are fed up with him, it's easy to see him want out. Remember he has a no trade, no movement clause.

What we should look for from Pettersson is talent, the old player, prospect and pick. Karlsson we should get toughness. I think we are going to need some guys to counter the Darnell Nurse and the Xman from Montreal types.

I think you have the right teams that would be in play.

Rangers - I've never even considered they might be interested, mostly because the have Fox to run the PP. Karlsson for Trouba would be interesting, Id like to think we could get a little sweetener also.

Toronto - only makes a play for Karlsson if they trade Marner. Dubas overpaid him once, entirely possible he is willing to do it again.

Ottawa - I proposed Karlsson for Norris in the offseason. Maybe you can go really big and trade Karlsson and Pettersson for Chabot, Jensen ++

Anaheim - I also think Karlsson fills a big hole for them. I've never been a big Zegras fan but at this point, might as well. Anaheim could take his full salary with nothing going back, so that is especially interesting. I just dont think they have any real need to do the deal.

Two more I think could happen:

Montreal - they need a top 4 RD and Karlsson could help them out with their PP. They have young guys but they arent going to be able to keep all of them. Id love to get Mailloux and we could take back a bad contract like Anderson to make the cap work. They have a lot of young talent and need to start turning the corner.

Utah - Only because they have two RD who are injured, but also because I think they are going to want some more star power there. They are going to be competing for a playoff spot but are down their top two RD. Could see us flipping Karlsson for Marino +, Utah has the cap space to get it done and I think we can be better with Marino and $5M in cap space than we are with Karlsson.
- MacPatty

If we could turn Karlsson into Marino and even just cap space I wouldn't even think about it. Marino and Graves were such a great pairing chemistry wise. It could allow us to Move Graves up to a 2nd pairing guy.

Montreal is interesting because they do have a lot of young talent.